Berra

I agree, they are very capable as I've been in numerous stock brake Turbos and they don't lack brake power at all. Track is a different story but, I never beat on my Turbo so I don't actually need the PCCB either, but they are awesome and far superior steel brakes. Well, except for price

Yes, it's obvious why but people seem to miss the point. Lots of guys claim that the X50 lags too much, but I've never seen people complain about the GT2, not even magazines, X50 and GT2.

I know the power difference, again, missing the point. This is also a thing many K16 guys mention, claiming that the difference isn't all that big on the street. Why would it be? Who drives "track speeds" on the street to be able to tell a big difference? Step on it on an airfield as I've done many many times in all sorts of cars and you'll notice a big difference between the two.

I can add a tune to the X50 aswell, and it will make more power than the K16 but that's not the point here.




That wasn't the point as to which is the faster with a flash. People claim, as you do, that the difference isn't that big...it is!

I've done airfields and I'm sure I've seen much more than 5 car lengths between the two but let's say it's 5...that not a big difference? LoL at those speeds it's an eternity. Just calculate or time the difference in seconds it takes the K16 to reach 180 mph vs the K24...

My point is that I don't notice the lag people talk about, maybe because I don't drive in 6th gear at 40 mph and except magic to happen when I floor it.

When my car went head to head with the RS7, it started in 2nd gear at 30 mph...that's about 3000 rpm and it pulled on it from the get go. RS7 is a double clutch gearbox equipped car with a 4.0 l Turbo V8 and 560 hp.

Also simon, the PCCB can be a bit tricky in rain, I agree but that's easy to deal with. Just apply brakes every now and then to keep them dry. This is actually a thing BMW and I'm sure other brands, put in their cars. It works on it's own, applying brakes to keep the brakes dry in case of an emergency.

Our cars don't have this but you can do it yourself by braking just a tiny bit.

Dock

It's not missing the point. You brought up the results of running an Audi to high speeds, and your result is likely more an indication of horsepower (or a poorly driven Audi) than it is an indication that there is no lag differences between the k24 and the k16.

The difference in lag between the k24 and the k16 is seen mainly in day to day driving on public roads, not in racing situations. The difference is evident (for those actually watching) in the car's response to throttle application that commands boost. So driving around on public roads where the driver needs short spurts of acceleration, the difference between the k16 and k24 is evident (I'd describe it in terms of "flexibility"). Is the difference huge? No, but it makes a difference in what can be considered the "driving experience'".

Berra

Poorly driven Audi? It has a double clutch gearbox and you just keep the foot down, lol!

As I said, you're missing the point. The reason why I brought up the RS7 is because the same guys claim that performance between the K16 and K24 is pretty much on same level and that is not true. You understood at least one thing and that's what I was talking about, horsepower! That's also why I said, go run a RS7 with a K16 Turbo and report back on how it went, I wasn't talking about lag at that point but overall performance.

I couldn't care less about K16 or K24, the base car is a 996 Turbo and that's all that matters. But, facts are also facts. This isn't about which one is better, I'd be as happy with the K16 but I was lucky to get my hands on this X50. My main goal when I was searching was 996 Turbo, not K16 vs K24!

SimonK

Actually, I did have a point which was brought on by your statement "I'd like to see k16 vs the same Audi". The reason I brought flash into it is that x50/S car in addition to bigger turbos also runs a higher boost. So, in fact x50/S car is actually flashed by the factory. Remember they do run the same engines. It therefore follows that if you flash k16 car by 30 bhp, the x50/S acceleration advantage reduces dramatically to hardly any. So yes a 450 bhp k16 car would **** over the Audi just the same ;-).

Ps. Also, a stock 420k16 turbo would **** all over the Audi due to a near 400kgs weight advantage. I will let you work out bhp per tonne difference ratio on your own. ;-).

"02996ttx50

^ yeah, true but the remap for the k24's is still further enhanced by an aftermarket tune. eg the car is still technically *de-tuned* as an x50 in spite of its mapping for the k24's. hence the ability to boost from the "stock" k24 numbers of .9-1.0 tune to more potent 1.2-1.3 by re-tuning/flashing the factory dme, without overtly stressing the stock internals.

or so its been explained to me.

Dock

It's a matter of when he/she went WOT and if they kept their foot in it the entire time. Did they lose traction anywhere along the run? I wasn't in the car with him/her, so I have no idea whether or not they max perfoprmed the car.

I also don't have any idea how the Audi was running. Was it up to full power, or did it need a tune up?

Can you tell a performance advantage between the k16's and the k24's via SOTP, or does it require racing another car?

Do you think the result of your race with the Audi establishes that the k24 turbos don't lag more than the k16's?

I personally went with k16's because I placed "less turbo lag" over "an additional 30 hp" (k24's). For the vast majority of my driving, I enjoy less turbo lag more than I would have enjoyed what little SOTP difference 30 hp makes. I elected instead to go with some stage II tuning to get another 80-100 hp, while keeping the less laggy k16's.

jumper5836

^
k16 with ecu tune no exhaust an increase of 50 - 80 HP 80 - 110 Ft/Lbs
k24 with ecu tune and exhaust an increase of 85 - 150 HP 80 - 150 Ft/Lbs

K24's start out with 30 hp more and then just have way more potential for increased hp/torque

Dock

I have a Europipe Stage II Loud exhaust, with EVOMS Stage II "Hammer" tuning ...combined, that's good for +80-100 hp...on less laggy turbos..

All with more turbo lag vs the k16's. And the lag is what I was avoiding when I elected not to order my 996 Turbo with X50. I don't track or street race my 996 Turbo, so my target has always been about SOTP and the overall driving experience on public roads.

Dock

Opinions obviously vary, but for me there is a practical upper limit in terms of power for street driving. Given stock wheels/tires, which I'm a fan of, then traction becomes a factor as power above stock is added. My personal sweet spot is where my car is right now...~500-520 fwhp, with some turbo lag that is acceptable.

SimonK

I second that.

My mate went with larger turbos (hybrids) and was at 600 fwhp. Car was spinning rears in forth. On the race track he was 1 second slower then when on 520fwhp with smaller turbos.

Came across this once, author unknown, which I completely agree with...

"Horsepower BS is all about male ego, chest pumping, and putting a ruler up to your dick! It's all the same with what oil is the best, what tyres are the stickiest, and how hot your MILF wife or GF is! It means absolutely nothing!"

So, talking about how k24 pisses all over k16 to me is meaningless! And I have the k24's with flash and exhaust. ;-).

jumper5836

which is why they put the 18G wheel in the K24. While I am keeping my k16's for now when they get replaced I am not sure I'd stick with them. All though Kevin's K16 hybrid sounds really nice way to go to.

SimonK

I second Kevin's hybrids. Best compromise from how I understand it.

wross996tt

At first I was thinking..."old thread"...In any case what I did was to buy the cheapest turbo I could (K16s). I took the money the X50 or S version cost (~$17K) and spent half of it on new exhaust (EP), Hybrid turbos, dual snorkel intake , Al intake plenum, new suspension, new ECU map(s), etc. and make way better HP/torque and very little lag.

"02996ttx50

hoorah, hoorah for hybrid turbo's.

offering the best of both k16's and AND 24's.

powdrhound

The engine is an air pump. What no one seems to mention is that if you run a factory MAF your engine output at some point will be limited by the capacity of the MAF. As such, K24s might NOT offer any advantage on the top end over K16s. This was my case. I went from running RUF K24/26 hybrids to running Kevins K16/GT2RS ZC turbos. With Kevins K16s my output is capped at 600whp on the top end mainly due to the upper limit of the MAF which is maxed out and actually running slightly above it's capacity by scaling the tune. If I ran K24s my output on the top end would remain the same (it was actually less with the K24s) and I would simply be giving up power and torque down low along with increased lag. With the K16s my wheel torque is 670ft.lb at 4000rpm. Lag is virtually nil. This is on 91 octane at 1.25bar running exhaust w/ cats.... Engine basically feels like a big block V8 which pulls all the way to 7500+

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