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Potential 996 Turbo owner; looking for information

 
Old 07-05-2011, 10:56 PM
  #16  
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With that info, I would walk. There is way more than meets the eye and I would not come close to that car. It's already overpriced for what you are offering and there are questions that you don't want to get surprised with later. Again, and 01 with Tip is at the bottom of the pricing ladder in the grand scheme of things. Trust me, take your time, there is so much more out there for that kind of money you are willing to spend.
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Old 07-05-2011, 11:06 PM
  #17  
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So you raised some serious concerns. I would take pics to show you if i wasnt out of town, but inside the side of the vents should be a piece of smooth black plastic duct that swoops upward. If it is missing I would have serious questions about why.

Given the nicks and dings you might want to take a pass on this one. There are low mileage 996tts that are almost flawless out there for the same money.

There are better deals out there.
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Old 07-05-2011, 11:14 PM
  #18  
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New rear tires, fix the door dings and anything else it needs, if you still like the car offer $35k. It's and early '01 with the rubber front overiders.

You sound like your old mans pushing 60 is like having 1 foot in the grave! I bought myself a GSXR Suzuki for my 60th a couple of years ago. Like to tease the kids in the canyons with it, and show them how a motorcycle should be ridden!

Good luck with what ever you decide.
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Old 07-05-2011, 11:22 PM
  #19  
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Originally Posted by LVDell View Post
With that info, I would walk. There is way more than meets the eye and I would not come close to that car. It's already overpriced for what you are offering and there are questions that you don't want to get surprised with later. Again, and 01 with Tip is at the bottom of the pricing ladder in the grand scheme of things. Trust me, take your time, there is so much more out there for that kind of money you are willing to spend.
Originally Posted by SSST View Post
So you raised some serious concerns. I would take pics to show you if i wasnt out of town, but inside the side of the vents should be a piece of smooth black plastic duct that swoops upward. If it is missing I would have serious questions about why.

Given the nicks and dings you might want to take a pass on this one. There are low mileage 996tts that are almost flawless out there for the same money.

There are better deals out there.


Thanks guys.
I am not finding these "other cars" though. A cars.com and autotrader.com search only shows the same three, two are dealer one privately owned, all asking 45.9k, including this care. The other dealer one is 4kmiles and the other is a private sale so no thanks. I have not found any other similar turbos for under 50k, plus this one is only an hour away.

I made the salesman aware of the issues when he started arguing that he did not want to budge on the price; I started listing the things wrong with it and he was trying to play the "well its a 10 year old care there are some issues its not perfect" game.
I will probably stick to 41k tops and maybe 42.5k is they do not accept it. if they don't budge, there's no sale, unless they want to atleast throw on new rear tires, fix the boot release button, and atleast give it a decent polish.... They have had the car for 2 weeks. Remember, I live in the tri-state area. cars are a bit more expensive than middle america by a few thousand

I know what you mean about the vents; I expected the same thing, however, in the llink I provided it looks like that inside the vent and I found pictures of another turbo for sale, a silver one, and the inside of the vent also looks greyish.....weird.

I need to take another look at it, it was kind of rushed because of traffic, etc so my fther and I both went on a 10 min drive, then I inspected the car a bit whil ewe talked; then I emailed the salesman about the price and then had a phone convo...waiting to hear back from them now.

They have a warranty for 3 months or 4 thousand miels under NY state law, so I am planning on taking it to Rennwerke, a local Porsche specialist shop, to have them do a post-purchase-inspection, so that any issues can be warrantied by the dealer. (if we end up buying, that is)

I am currently searching the web for other turbos in the same range and am coming up empty-handed besides the two mentioned above.
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Old 07-05-2011, 11:25 PM
  #20  
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Originally Posted by nick49 View Post
New rear tires, fix the door dings and anything else it needs, if you still like the car offer $35k. It's and early '01 with the rubber front overiders.
I actually brought that up with the salesman and he had no idea about the rubber bumper addons indicating an early 2001 model. He also thought the carbon was aftermarket but running the vin showed it was factory.....in his defense they had the car for 2 weeks and 1.5 of those it was being driven by the owner's father, a porsche enthusiast So im sure thye didnt have all the time in the world to inspect it thoroughly besides for pictures.

Wholesale on that is about $38k, so $35k is a bit too low. Auction price is around $28k according to the information I have from a dealer friend.

here is that said information:
---Based on 7/1/2011 Galves books
Base Price: $34,000 Adds/Deducts: $0 Subtotal: $34,000 Odometer Adj: $3,825 Override: Wholesale: $37,825
Base Price: $35,650 Adds/Deducts: $0 Subtotal: $35,650 Odometer Adj: $3,825 Override: MarketReady: $39,475

---Based on most recent auction 6/20/2011
national: # vehicles: 7
Average Odometer: 36,000
Average Auction Price: $32,684
Regional: # vehicles: 1
Average odometer: 29,578
Average Auction Price: $27,300

Galves Wholesale Price: $37,825
rbook Price: $49,541
Auction Price: 27,300
MMR: $42,000


With the price I am offering them, if they paid around that wholesale price for the car, they are still within a 10% profit margin of $38k + $3800 = $41800 rounded to $42k.
If you follow the MMR (Manheim Market Report ) wholesale price of $42k, which I doubt they paid, then maybe his "we paid that" story is true. But then why would you price it with only a $3k profit?
I doubt they grabbed it at around that auction price; since they go to auction in PA, they probably paid closer to wholesale. Overall, they will still be making a few bucks if we pay $42k.

Last edited by JBaker1121; 07-05-2011 at 11:53 PM.
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Old 07-05-2011, 11:48 PM
  #21  
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You're making excuses for the dealer. This isn't a good sign. You need to assume everything they tell you is a lie. It may not be, but this is a business transaction and you need to evaluate the car on it's merits and the facts.

Those ducts on the side vents don't just pop out on their own. If they are missing, then something happened to that car. You need to recognize that.
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Old 07-05-2011, 11:58 PM
  #22  
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Originally Posted by SSST View Post
You're making excuses for the dealer. This isn't a good sign. You need to assume everything they tell you is a lie. It may not be, but this is a business transaction and you need to evaluate the car on it's merits and the facts.

Those ducts on the side vents don't just pop out on their own. If they are missing, then something happened to that car. You need to recognize that.
I understand that, but if you look at the link posted and a quick google search, it seems like the "inside" of the tubes all have a grey color to them, unless that was a 2001 thing?
I already know how much they are trying to make; If they do not accept $42k then there's no deal. $35k is never going to happen, and i do not see any, even with a national search on three car sale sites, that match the miles, tiptronic, and price.
They legally have to give you a warranty; I will take it to a specialist the day of; if there are problems they will be fixed;
I understand and appreciate your help, but this isn't like adopting a child; you can bring it back if you have a problem with it.
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Old 07-06-2011, 12:12 AM
  #23  
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Originally Posted by JBaker1121 View Post
I understand that, but if you look at the link posted and a quick google search, it seems like the "inside" of the tubes all have a grey color to them, unless that was a 2001 thing?
I already know how much they are trying to make; If they do not accept $42k then there's no deal. $35k is never going to happen, and i do not see any, even with a national search on three car sale sites, that match the miles, tiptronic, and price.
They legally have to give you a warranty; I will take it to a specialist the day of; if there are problems they will be fixed;
I understand and appreciate your help, but this isn't like adopting a child; you can bring it back if you have a problem with it.
If the black plastic intercooler intakes have overspray on them, the car's had some paintwork done on it at some point.

Dealers don't legally have to give you a warranty, and they don't have to take back a car that has issues- "sold as-is" is a frequently used term.

If it were me, I'd walk for sure- but it's your money.
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Old 07-06-2011, 12:18 AM
  #24  
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Originally Posted by PAULUNM View Post
If the black plastic intercooler intakes have overspray on them, the car's had some paintwork done on it at some point.

Dealers don't legally have to give you a warranty, and they don't have to take back a car that has issues- "sold as-is" is a frequently used term.

If it were me, I'd walk for sure- but it's your money.
It's possible, but like I said, the picture of the vent I saw had the same overspray pattern but while the overspray was black, the body color was silver.

Also, you are incorrect: under NYS law, the dealer must give you a warranty for up to 90 days/ 4k miles. (in this case; see the following)

Here is the law:
"Summary of Used Car Lemon Law
Summary:

New York’s law requires dealers to provide warranties on all used cars sold for more than $ 1,500 and with less than 100,000 miles. If the vehicle had less than 36,000 miles when sold, the warranty must last 90 days or 4,000 miles. The warranty must provide coverage for certain specified components like the engine and transmission. All states provide a time or mileage minimum for warranties, whichever occurs first. Details:
NEW YORK (GEN. BUS. LAW ž 198-B)

New York establishes a consumer's right to return a vehicle and obtain a refund or replacement if a dealer cannot make a vehicle conform to its warranty after a reasonable number of repair attempts and establishes an arbitration procedure.

Warranty Term

The term of the warranty is based on usage. A warranty must last: 90 days or 4,000 miles if the vehicle has 36,000 miles or less; 60 days or 3,000 miles if the vehicle has been operated more than 36,000 miles but less than 80,000 miles; and 30 days or 1,000 miles if the vehicle has been operated 80,000 miles or more but less than 100,000 miles.

Warranty Coverage

The law requires dealers to provide a written warranty when selling a used motor vehicle that covers certain specified components, including the engine, transmission, drive axle, brakes, radiator, steering, and the ignition system excluding the battery. The warranties may exclude defects due to lack of maintenance, collision, abuse, theft, vandalism, and other specified causes including odometer tampering.

Standard for Returning a Vehicle
A consumer may return the vehicle and obtain a refund if a dealer cannot repair a defect that substantially impairs the vehicles value after (1) the same defect has been the subject of repair three or more times and it has not be corrected or (2) the vehicle has been out of service for repair for 15 days during the warranty period. Days when the dealer cannot make the repair because parts are unavailable do not count toward the deadline if the dealer is exercising due diligence to obtain the parts. But a consumer is entitled to a refund or replacement vehicle if the vehicle has not been repaired after 45 days.

Notification of Rights
The law requires dealers to give buyers a notice entitled, "Used Car Lemon Law Bill of Rights. " The notice describes a consumer's rights under the law. The law makes void any waiver of rights signed by the consumer. Further, the law does not limit in any way a consumer's rights under other laws.

Informal Dispute Resolution:
If a dealer operates or participates in an informal dispute resolution procedure that complies in all respects with regulations implementing the federal Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act, a consumer must use the procedure before enforcing his rights to return a vehicle and receive a refund. A dealer has 30 days to comply with an arbitrator's order. If he fails to do so, a consumer, in addition to other recovery, is entitled to $ 25 per business day up to a maximum of $ 500.

Penalty
If the motor vehicles commissioner determines that a dealer failed to comply for over 60 days, he may suspend or revoke his registration.
A consumer who resorted to an informal dispute resolution procedure is not precluded from asserting other legal rights. In suits to enforce this law, the court may award reasonable attorney's fees to a prevailing plaintiff or to a consumer who prevails in any judicial proceeding arising out of arbitration.
Exclusions:
The law does not establish a required warranty for (1) vehicles operated more than 100,000 miles (2) sold for less than $ 1,500, or (3) "historical vehicles" as defined in the New York motor vehicle code.

"

here's the full version: http://autopedia.com/html/LemonLaw/N...lemonlaw3.html


So, IF we do buy the car, then take it to Rennwerke the next day, for example, and they find issues covered under the written warranrty, the dealer will cover them under warranty. Of course, not everything is covered but major components are(see below) This is why I am a bit more comfortable than just buying a car "as-is" online, for example.

"2. The written warranty shall require the dealer or his agent to repair or, at the election of the dealer, reimburse the consumer for the reasonable cost of repairing the failure of a covered part. Covered parts shall at least include the following items:

(a) Engine. All lubricated parts, water pump, fuel pump, manifolds, engine block, cylinder head, rotary engine housings and flywheel.
(b) Transmission. The transmission case, internal parts, and the torque converter.

(c) Drive axle. Front and rear drive axle housings and internal parts, axle shafts, propeller shafts and universal joints.

(d) Brakes. Master cylinder, vacuum assist booster, wheel cylinders, hydraulic lines and fittings and disc brake calipers.

(e) Radiator.

(f) Steering. The steering gear housing and all internal parts, power steering pump, valve body, piston and rack.

(g) Alternator, generator, starter, ignition system excluding the battery.


"



I'll see what happens with the pricing.
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Old 07-06-2011, 12:18 AM
  #25  
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There's a polar silver 2002 at bernardsville vw (nj). Probably 75 miles from westchester. You won't get it for $41k, but its a much better example than what you're describing to us. There's no need to rush into buying a used car.
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Old 07-06-2011, 12:21 AM
  #26  
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Another thought is to expand your search radius. If you can buy a mint car for thousands less in the middle of the country, you can have it shipped. Even better, fly to the car and drive it back.

Just trying to keep you from making a bad choice. From what you described, it sounds like there are issues that go beyond wear and tear. Most P owners are obsessive about their cars and there are a lot of very clean cars out there if you are patient.
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Old 07-06-2011, 12:30 AM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by JG 996T View Post
There's a polar silver 2002 at bernardsville vw (nj). Probably 75 miles from westchester. You won't get it for $41k, but its a much better example than what you're describing to us. There's no need to rush into buying a used car.
Where do you see this car? I've done searches on a few sites and that has not been a result.

Originally Posted by SSST View Post
Another thought is to expand your search radius. If you can buy a mint car for thousands less in the middle of the country, you can have it shipped. Even better, fly to the car and drive it back.

Just trying to keep you from making a bad choice. From what you described, it sounds like there are issues that go beyond wear and tear. Most P owners are obsessive about their cars and there are a lot of very clean cars out there if you are patient.
I expanded my search on 3 sites to "all" meaning nationally, only the 3 I spoke about above were listed for below $50k, with tiptronic.
Which issues sound like beyond wear and tear to you? I've dealt with used cars before, these issues just seem like mid-level, not-that-hard-to-fix issues. I wish they were closer and I knew a local shop to do a PPI.
Like I stated above, they legally have to give me a minimal warranty of 90 days/3000 miles that covers the major things. If we do end up buying, Im sure we can find some thigns for them to replace.
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Old 07-06-2011, 12:36 AM
  #28  
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Well it sounds like you are pretty committed. You've seen the car and we haven't. I hope it all works out for you.
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Old 07-06-2011, 12:44 AM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by SSST View Post
Well it sounds like you are pretty committed. You've seen the car and we haven't. I hope it all works out for you.
All I am saying is that I have not seen anything similar to it in price and tiptronic, and miles. We really arent planning on waiting around for one to come up, because you never know what is going to happen. We went and drove it, we liked it, there are some isseus to be sorted out but they really arent anything major. If anything, I can have the PPI done and see if they find anything. If they give the OK and the dealer meets our price, then we will most likely purchase it, and take advantage of the warranty coverage for the 90 days.
Like I've said, paintwork is not really an issue for us because we have a paintwork connect, certain mechanical issues are also not a huge concern because he have a shop connect, and a local Porsche/turbo specialist. Of course, even if the PPi clears I will take it for a thorough inspection to Rennwerke where then can give me more exact details, etc.
I really do appreciate your, and everyone else's help.

If anybody has an 01ish turbo, can you please take a photo of the "inside" of the side vents behind the doors? Thanks.


Thanks guys
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Old 07-06-2011, 01:19 AM
  #30  
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Trying to help!

I've never heard of Galves. There wholesale prices seem very inflated. What you need to know is, in todays economy most everything Porsche wise that sells, sells for way back of book. Dealers buy, way back of wholesale. As a retail buyer, you should be able to buy a MINT car with a very clean history, all books and records, very regularly serviced, zero paint work, low milage for NADA average trade in price or below.

I'd bet the car you're looking at was purchased by the dealer for $26k to $29,500. Paintwork should be an issue! Nobody can give you the durability of factory paint. The side vents are black inside when new. Sun exposure turns the black to grey.

Be patient. I had a half dozen PPIs done and spent nearly 11 months looking before I found a car that was OK. Even then, I wanted a Tip and settled for a 6 speed and my last choice of color. The car is awsome though.

One more thing, Tips are usually harder to sell and actually command less $$$ retail.

GL
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