New Fabspeed muffler NO DRONE
11-08-2006, 05:34 PM
#1
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New Fabspeed muffler NO DRONE
I posted this on the 997TT board. I know you are wondering why in the heck I am posting it here.....because we have this same version now for the 996TT!
I have been holding on to this post for some time. Anytime we test something new it gets placed on my car and used daily before we ever stamp it as good. Sometimes things work out and other times it does not. When I tested this exhaust it was my determination not to leave it on the car because the history of some of the Fabspeed equipment has known to not be as quiet as some. We strapped the car to the dyno and ran our base lines. The 997TT is an interesting beast to dyno as all of the new cars are. They switch maps almost 8 times before the car will settle into a good base. On any turbo this can and does become an issue with cooling. So for almost all of our TT testing we remove the bumper to force air back through the intercoolers while also using fans in the engine bay and front nose.
The first set of baselines yielded 429HP and 440TQ. This is in AWD mode. All of our testing is done in house on our dyno, a Mustang 500SE AWD unit. The test was done in overboost mode. The max back pressure measured before cat after the turbine housing 6.5Lbs
The car was left strapped to the dyno and the stock exhaust stripped off and the Fabspeed unit strapped on. Install was pretty straight forward. Quality is as you would expect from FS. Nice welds, shiny as hell and if anything it is easier since the unit is now two separate cans as opposed to a single unit as before. Everything lines up much better than before. Like the factory setup it is fitted with swedge type connectors as the factory does. This leaves an infinite amount of adjustment if necessary. The cats are high flow racing cats. Similar in design to the 996TT in flow but not in appearance or material. The new systems in the 997TT are not very complainant when it comes to high flow cats these days so they must be spot on out of the box. The unit also comes in three variants of sound levels. So you now choose how loud you do or don’t want the car.
For my car I wanted quiet. Not so much that I didn’t know it was changed but something that DID NOT DRONE and still made power. We lined up the tips and hit the key. I think my exact words were “holy Sh#t! It is quiet. There is absolutely no drone in this system. Keep in mind before the test I had every intention to remove the unit after the dyno runs.
We started cracking the new dyno. Two things before the numbers ever showed up I noticed. The lag that is present that was not to be present with our cars was reduced in most cases almost eliminated. When you stab the throttle the car comes up on boost now and throttle response is much improved. I was originally a little disappointed by the new turbos but the back pressure clearly plays a roll in this. The measured max back pressure as measured in line with the base was .9lbs.
The second thing I noticed is in the stock configurations as our cars come up on boost they tend to surge or jerk near max boost and redline. I thought it was my car bust have confirmed with several other owners the car is doing this. That was eliminated. The car pulled quickly and strongly through the range as opposed to the hesitation type feel up top. This is also noticeable on the street as it was the dyno. If I had been paying attention before hang I would have timed the 2K to redline time to see how much quicker the car came through the band. Unfortunately I didn’t have this brain spike until after the exhaust was on.
Once we settled the car in to the runs again making nearly 8 to 9 pulls before an established base line settled we established a gain to 450HP and 457TQ AWD to the wheels. We picked up 21HP to all four wheels and 17 TQ to all four wheels. Keep in mind there is an additional loss factor when driving all wheel as opposed to 2 WD. The loss factor used to achieve crank HP is WHP/.80=CHP, 2WD is WHP/.85=CHP. These numbers will overlay almost consistently run after run. There were some higher numbers but what was able to be duplicated is above.
I now have about 2500 miles on the system. My initial concerns on releasing these results and stamping it as good to go was check engine lights and real world use. Initially there were some concerns with CEL and drone. As established prior in the post it does not drone and I am very pleased with the sound. It is not too loud and under throttle has a gurgle that clearly turns heads when you are on it. I recently was headed to a family wedding and was late, it was 80 miles west of KC and all highway. So while the boys slept in the back and Rox was reading her gossip magazine of celebrities I was making up for lost time. Well apparently I passed my brother in law. We beat him by 10 minutes and he said it sounded like nothing he had heard before. His quote was it sounded exotic as you blasted past me. Then he assumed I was doing a lot more than I was because he said it was loud. LOL, not where I was sitting it wasn’t and that is what he gets for driving a Honda
Still NO CELs and as tested with the PWIS system no pendings in the system. The only complaint I have is I still have not received my new quad tips!
Will I keep the system on my car. Yes! I am pleased with the quality, the sound, the fitment and the drivability difference. The HP and TQ in my eyes is a bonus.
If anyone questions please feel free to post them, or email me. If you are interested in a system please contact me off line. My goal with the post is to provide accurate and detailed information on the product.
I have been holding on to this post for some time. Anytime we test something new it gets placed on my car and used daily before we ever stamp it as good. Sometimes things work out and other times it does not. When I tested this exhaust it was my determination not to leave it on the car because the history of some of the Fabspeed equipment has known to not be as quiet as some. We strapped the car to the dyno and ran our base lines. The 997TT is an interesting beast to dyno as all of the new cars are. They switch maps almost 8 times before the car will settle into a good base. On any turbo this can and does become an issue with cooling. So for almost all of our TT testing we remove the bumper to force air back through the intercoolers while also using fans in the engine bay and front nose.
The first set of baselines yielded 429HP and 440TQ. This is in AWD mode. All of our testing is done in house on our dyno, a Mustang 500SE AWD unit. The test was done in overboost mode. The max back pressure measured before cat after the turbine housing 6.5Lbs
The car was left strapped to the dyno and the stock exhaust stripped off and the Fabspeed unit strapped on. Install was pretty straight forward. Quality is as you would expect from FS. Nice welds, shiny as hell and if anything it is easier since the unit is now two separate cans as opposed to a single unit as before. Everything lines up much better than before. Like the factory setup it is fitted with swedge type connectors as the factory does. This leaves an infinite amount of adjustment if necessary. The cats are high flow racing cats. Similar in design to the 996TT in flow but not in appearance or material. The new systems in the 997TT are not very complainant when it comes to high flow cats these days so they must be spot on out of the box. The unit also comes in three variants of sound levels. So you now choose how loud you do or don’t want the car.
For my car I wanted quiet. Not so much that I didn’t know it was changed but something that DID NOT DRONE and still made power. We lined up the tips and hit the key. I think my exact words were “holy Sh#t! It is quiet. There is absolutely no drone in this system. Keep in mind before the test I had every intention to remove the unit after the dyno runs.
We started cracking the new dyno. Two things before the numbers ever showed up I noticed. The lag that is present that was not to be present with our cars was reduced in most cases almost eliminated. When you stab the throttle the car comes up on boost now and throttle response is much improved. I was originally a little disappointed by the new turbos but the back pressure clearly plays a roll in this. The measured max back pressure as measured in line with the base was .9lbs.
The second thing I noticed is in the stock configurations as our cars come up on boost they tend to surge or jerk near max boost and redline. I thought it was my car bust have confirmed with several other owners the car is doing this. That was eliminated. The car pulled quickly and strongly through the range as opposed to the hesitation type feel up top. This is also noticeable on the street as it was the dyno. If I had been paying attention before hang I would have timed the 2K to redline time to see how much quicker the car came through the band. Unfortunately I didn’t have this brain spike until after the exhaust was on.
Once we settled the car in to the runs again making nearly 8 to 9 pulls before an established base line settled we established a gain to 450HP and 457TQ AWD to the wheels. We picked up 21HP to all four wheels and 17 TQ to all four wheels. Keep in mind there is an additional loss factor when driving all wheel as opposed to 2 WD. The loss factor used to achieve crank HP is WHP/.80=CHP, 2WD is WHP/.85=CHP. These numbers will overlay almost consistently run after run. There were some higher numbers but what was able to be duplicated is above.
I now have about 2500 miles on the system. My initial concerns on releasing these results and stamping it as good to go was check engine lights and real world use. Initially there were some concerns with CEL and drone. As established prior in the post it does not drone and I am very pleased with the sound. It is not too loud and under throttle has a gurgle that clearly turns heads when you are on it. I recently was headed to a family wedding and was late, it was 80 miles west of KC and all highway. So while the boys slept in the back and Rox was reading her gossip magazine of celebrities I was making up for lost time. Well apparently I passed my brother in law. We beat him by 10 minutes and he said it sounded like nothing he had heard before. His quote was it sounded exotic as you blasted past me. Then he assumed I was doing a lot more than I was because he said it was loud. LOL, not where I was sitting it wasn’t and that is what he gets for driving a Honda
Still NO CELs and as tested with the PWIS system no pendings in the system. The only complaint I have is I still have not received my new quad tips!
Will I keep the system on my car. Yes! I am pleased with the quality, the sound, the fitment and the drivability difference. The HP and TQ in my eyes is a bonus.
If anyone questions please feel free to post them, or email me. If you are interested in a system please contact me off line. My goal with the post is to provide accurate and detailed information on the product.
11-08-2006, 05:56 PM
#2
Professor of Pending Projects
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Thank you!!!I already have a quote from Fabspeed for the missing parts for mine... I currently have the cats installed with straight pipes and factory tips and all I would need is the muffler section (and eliminating the straight pipes in the process).
I should be able to take the plunge in four weeks (when the funds become available). Goodbye drone!!
Always good to have a modular system. Anytime I want the loud system back I just drop the muffler and replace with the straight pipes, sweet!!
11-09-2006, 01:32 PM
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Thanks for some interesting reading. You certainly did quite a bit of homework on these. Have you had an oppurtunity to test the 996 versions? I am especially intereted in the actual HP gains, but even more importantly the changes in Driveability and of course the Drone factor. Thanks
11-09-2006, 02:20 PM
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Doc,
I dont always agree with everything you say/do but I must hand it to you in regards to committing
(buying a 997TT and tearing into it), and getting your hands dirty!
very interesting info:
this is to learn only,
what is stated factory flywheel horsepower in overboost mode?
how as a percent loss does this relate to your 429 HP at the wheels #?
IE if factory HP is 510, then 429/.84 == 510 and all wheel drive loss is 16% I believe.
then if above is correct new # of 450/.84 == 535.7 and increase at flywheel would be
25.7 horsepower. Again, I am trying to understand this and wonder how Mustang wheel
HP truly relates to Porsche flywheel hp. I think we can assume whatever porsche publishes
is Pretty damn close to actual.
thanks,
MK
I dont always agree with everything you say/do but I must hand it to you in regards to committing
(buying a 997TT and tearing into it), and getting your hands dirty!
very interesting info:
this is to learn only,
what is stated factory flywheel horsepower in overboost mode?
how as a percent loss does this relate to your 429 HP at the wheels #?
IE if factory HP is 510, then 429/.84 == 510 and all wheel drive loss is 16% I believe.
then if above is correct new # of 450/.84 == 535.7 and increase at flywheel would be
25.7 horsepower. Again, I am trying to understand this and wonder how Mustang wheel
HP truly relates to Porsche flywheel hp. I think we can assume whatever porsche publishes
is Pretty damn close to actual.
thanks,
MK
11-09-2006, 02:26 PM
#5
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Originally Posted by Woodster
Doc,
I dont always agree with everything you say/do but I must hand it to you in regards to committing
(buying a 997TT and tearing into it), and getting your hands dirty!
very interesting info:
I dont always agree with everything you say/do but I must hand it to you in regards to committing
(buying a 997TT and tearing into it), and getting your hands dirty!
very interesting info:
Notice the 997TT LED turn signals molded into the 997 light housings 
11-09-2006, 02:31 PM
#6
Professor of Pending Projects
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Originally Posted by PorscheDoc
...Notice the 997TT LED turn signals molded into the 997 light housings
That is the best face for the 997 cars 
11-09-2006, 02:39 PM
#7
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LOL, well don’t feel bad…neither does my wife or two boys. Hell, while I am thinking about it my employees don’t either. My cat does though!!
The rated HP is 480 and the TQ is 505. Which doesn’t make a lot of since HP rating is the same and the TQ is going up. Bottom line is you add another 2.9 bar you will increase HP as well. TQ would only go up if the tuning was not optimized and when in sport mode it was. Clearly not the case adding boost will also add HP given the turbos are in their efficiency range. I am not sure what the exact loss was. What I can tell you is we have dynoed 3 997S and on every occasion the 2WD loss factor places the HP almost on the nose what Porsche list as a spec. The overboost mode does not equal what thy claim.
So one of two things is happening. My dyno gets looser on numbers in AWD mode or Porsche was conservative on the HP with the TT. For what reason. Well I can tell you insurance rates, gas guzzler etc. Ok, I know you are asking yourself, how do we know that the dyno isn’t loose in AWD compared to 2WD. I have other cars since we do A LOT of STis and know those numbers hit almost spot on as well. So unless it is a gross exaggeration of loss number meaning that the drivetrain is tighter than a C2 the only thing left by deductive reasoning is the car is making more than claimed.
For history sake Porsche has usually been more conservative on published numbers. Difference in dynos, loss whatever but for years we have seen higher numbers out of the turbos and the older generation then we see now. Of course Ford and Chevy always over inflated their numbers. Then the SS came out and they sold more by under rating them. Always a game with the numbers.
Notice I didn’t not put a crank increase LOL, I will let you guys decide what that is. The gains I will quote are right there on the sheet. Before and after, KISS theory!
The rated HP is 480 and the TQ is 505. Which doesn’t make a lot of since HP rating is the same and the TQ is going up. Bottom line is you add another 2.9 bar you will increase HP as well. TQ would only go up if the tuning was not optimized and when in sport mode it was. Clearly not the case adding boost will also add HP given the turbos are in their efficiency range. I am not sure what the exact loss was. What I can tell you is we have dynoed 3 997S and on every occasion the 2WD loss factor places the HP almost on the nose what Porsche list as a spec. The overboost mode does not equal what thy claim.
So one of two things is happening. My dyno gets looser on numbers in AWD mode or Porsche was conservative on the HP with the TT. For what reason. Well I can tell you insurance rates, gas guzzler etc. Ok, I know you are asking yourself, how do we know that the dyno isn’t loose in AWD compared to 2WD. I have other cars since we do A LOT of STis and know those numbers hit almost spot on as well. So unless it is a gross exaggeration of loss number meaning that the drivetrain is tighter than a C2 the only thing left by deductive reasoning is the car is making more than claimed.
For history sake Porsche has usually been more conservative on published numbers. Difference in dynos, loss whatever but for years we have seen higher numbers out of the turbos and the older generation then we see now. Of course Ford and Chevy always over inflated their numbers. Then the SS came out and they sold more by under rating them. Always a game with the numbers.
Notice I didn’t not put a crank increase LOL, I will let you guys decide what that is. The gains I will quote are right there on the sheet. Before and after, KISS theory!
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11-09-2006, 03:00 PM
#8
Burning Brakes
Originally Posted by Wachuko
Thank you!!!I already have a quote from Fabspeed for the missing parts for mine... I currently have the cats installed with straight pipes and factory tips and all I would need is the muffler section (and eliminating the straight pipes in the process).
I should be able to take the plunge in four weeks (when the funds become available). Goodbye drone!!
Always good to have a modular system. Anytime I want the loud system back I just drop the muffler and replace with the straight pipes, sweet!!
11-09-2006, 04:00 PM
#9
Professor of Pending Projects
Rennlist Member
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Originally Posted by iborroel
I don't think you can use these new mufflers with the 100 cell cats you have. You would have to buy a whole new system.
I really hope that is not the case for my 996TT. I emailed FabSpeed with the question and included photos of my current setup. The reply came back that they work with a price quote and everything... Have you received communication from them to the contrary??
Edit: I resent an email to them with a link to this post. So we should hear from Joe. I hope it works with my current setup and it was not a misunderstading...
Last edited by Wachuko; 11-09-2006 at 04:34 PM.
11-09-2006, 04:58 PM
#10
Burning Brakes
Wachuko: Stephen from IA answered some guy on 6speed. Here was Stephen's response.
"As far as an upgrade cost. There is nothing from the old system that crosses over. So there is not an "upgrade" so to speak."
"As far as an upgrade cost. There is nothing from the old system that crosses over. So there is not an "upgrade" so to speak."
11-09-2006, 06:44 PM
#11
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Thread Starter
11-10-2006, 07:30 AM
#14
Three Wheelin'
Originally Posted by PorschePhD
Thought you might like that
Very Nice!!
At first I was a little concerned that the Honda may have given you a run for your money, especially when I saw what she was sporting under the Hood??
But the TT came up with the goods..
11-10-2006, 10:04 AM
#15
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Originally Posted by Condor Man
I second that!!
Very Nice!!
At first I was a little concerned that the Honda may have given you a run for your money, especially when I saw what she was sporting under the Hood??
But the TT came up with the goods..
Very Nice!!
At first I was a little concerned that the Honda may have given you a run for your money, especially when I saw what she was sporting under the Hood??
But the TT came up with the goods..