tkerrmd

Oak, Kevin, thanks for the input!!

Dan, I'm not sure what you meant by the other products comment. All the products I have mentioned are all on your awesome website......no worries

sharkster

I'm in.. I'll shoot my 10 cents worth here since I've actually had something like 8 different set ups on the car ranging from PSS9s, JICs, Single Adjustable JRZs, Doubles, Moton Club Sports etc.. I've also got a set of JRZ Single Adjustables in the 996C2. I would say other than the JRZs and Motons none of the other "street level" (and that's really what they are) coil overs come close. It's either 2.5K or so or 6K an up. There's nothing in between and just a void. I'm not going to get into semantics here but we've rarely been able to set any of the other kits up without certain compromises on a TT. Either they're too soft/mushy. Either the bump stops are a problem. Either hardware breaks (drop links etc..) and more importantly none of them and I mean this NONE of them are anywhere near as compliant. I hear/read a lot of BS about either the JRZs or Motons to the tune of "Oh that's way overkill, they're too harsh, they're too stiff for the street". Just yesterday there was a customer who had us install his KW variant 3 (their fanciest) and he came back to drop off his friend who was doing a PSS9 kit and let us know that the car seemed stiffer and less sway prone than stock but it was pretty harsh over all. So we dial it back down and guess what? The car pogos. I tell him if he wants we can go for a ride in a car we just set up with Motons and he came back in disbelief saying "Wow not only does it handle so well but without any fuss and/or harshness. It's oem-like". For some reason these so called "adjustable" street level kits seem to be more gimmicky than anything else. It doesn't seem like they really properly designed to be adjusted. Either the shocks are too stiff and the springs are too soft or the other way around. There's really only "one best" setting for them that best match the shock dampening and the spring. I'm really starting to understand why companies like RuF, Tech Art etc... offer their versions of the Bilstein Coil Over as a PSS and not PSS9 (meaning they have no dampening adjustment). If you want a street set up stick to PSS9s or something like that. If you have the money and want to dabble with both or really desire/want the ability to change you need to do double or tripple adjustable. Period.

My car handled phenonmenally- better than almost any other TT I've driven with the JRZs (bear in mind I've got a lot of GT3 RSR and other parts on the car). I think they make the best shock available (sachs, penske, ohlins- it's at that level). And when you go adjusting them guess what? Compliance does NOT go out the window. You can indeed make them compliant on the street (if a little on the stiff side with the springs I ran) and then superb on the track with some adjusting. Van OverBeek and Darren Law both said my car was set up fantastically well and although we came in 2nd or 3rd on the track event with my car we also came in 1st with the GT2 that had a very similair set up. Cary Eisenlohr was the guru in terms of setting up the JRZs, the adjustable control arms and helping me get rid of all of the rubber. Switching to motons AND slightly lesser spring rates my car is more suitable to drive on the road and "not quite" as edgy on the track. I couldn't tell you which "shock" is better as at that level it's all in the set up. But I'm amazed at the way the 996C2 is with even the single adjustable JRZs. It's not a "street" kit by any means but I'll be darned if those aren't some fine shocks indeed. I'm lucky in the Bay Area to have a bunch of tracks and Rolex/ALMS drivers that once in a while test out our cars either as friends or owners. They very much are my litmus test and the jury says JRZ for pure track and Motons for street/track. The JRZs do bleed and require maintenance and to truly adjust them you need to have a lift or at least all fours off of the ground and no load on the shocks. The motons have slightly different (perhaps more modern) hardware and you can adjust with the shocks under pressure since there's a check valve.

So where does that leave me? Well my cars are primarily street cars so I'm actually putting on some Moton Club Sports on the C2 just like on the Turbo. I like the fact that I can take just about any turn without even a hint of bump steer, pogo or any other nuisance and the fact that a pro driver might not be quite as quick in those cars as they would have been when they rode on JRZs doesn't bother me personally.

And finally... double adjustables are certainly more finicky, may require you look/maintain them etc.. They are usually race or race-derived parts so look for leaks and such from time to time. But also make SURE you have them installed by experienced techs. I've seen two many instances of frayed lines, incorrect orientation and generally poor set up resulting in a lot of agro to you the customer. You have to know the difference between compression and rebound. You need to know where to run the lines. You need to know where NOT to run them etc.. Be careful is all I'm saying.

No suspension company "owns my soul" and I still very much feel like I am one of you guys. Yes I have my lil' shop too but I've really tried all of these on my car(s) so if I've made any companies upset or they feel their products have been "dissed", there's nothing I can do. That's just been my experiences.

My advice is when possible if you are considering any type of suspension, then TRY and get a ride in a car that has it installed. See what's too rough/not enough for you. I can tell you that out of the last 7-8 Moton and 2-3 JRZ double adjustable kits we've done they have all started with PSS9s, then either gone to JICs or right up to said double adjustables. It's been even more expensive for them unfortunately.

I hope I haven't scared any one off with this and if I never sell another PSS9 kit again then so be it!

PS And one final thing- please don't just slap on springs on a TT. I've chucked away more H&R spring kits than I've thrown away Beru Spark plugs. Trust me- as much as you think you just want to "lower" the car your handling will go out the window.

melsta

yes yes i am the one that got a ride in one of alex gt700 car with the motons and those suspension are great (only if i stop by alexs' shop before i bought my kw v3s) the ride feels a lot like stock suspension but with very good performance. there is a big difference from so call street suspension and motons i myself have read a lot of post on suspension before i bought the kw v3s but haven't actually ride in any till i got mine install by alex and james of course and my buddy got the pss9 setup and they both don't compare to the motons but of course it really depends on what a person wants and expects from their suspension. for me, i was looking for a suspesion that feels like stock suspension (with out harsh low speed bump feel) but has good handling and stable at high speed. i also notice with the street suspension you cant really have the best of both worlds because i drove the car with factory settings from kw and they were a bit to stiff for me but i notice at high speed the car was very stable and after i got it set by alex and james again (due to the stiffness) the ride feels better at low speed bumps but at hight speed i get some pretty scary bump steer.

for the people that are looking to get suspension for their car they should really try to find someone with the suspension they are planning to buy and get a ride from them to see if that satisfy their needs before buying. there is really no street or track performance suspension its how you want your ride to feel and handle

tkerrmd

Alex, thanks for taking the time to share your wealth of knowledge and experience with all of us, it really puts the suspension stuff into perspective!!!

sharkster

Got a few nice Emails about this My pleasure guys....

Woodster

Holy Crap Sharkey,

you sound "as if" you have been around a few different suspensions...

MK

sharkster

Heheh Marty... I know! I've had PSS9s, revalved/FVD PSS9s, JICs, JRZs, Motons, Stock (hah that was ****e!) and a few others

Woodster

Sharkey,
I knew that and think your post was one of the most intelligent ever posted (about suspensions)
the other guy that is much quieter on the boards and knows everything about
suspensions is Steve Weiner at Rennsport Systems: very astute!

MK

sharkster

Aw thanks man... I tried to keep the tecnical babble and jargon to a minimum and just focus on the end user-level experience that I've had with these things but there are a good few people on the boards, you are right Right now one of the battles is explaining to people just why GT3 sway bars on a AWD TT is not the greatest idea- the geometry is all wrong for those. Hence I go with the TT H&R set up....