msindi

I am looking into getting headers for my car and was wondering what people on this board recommended.
I remember CJV's post abpout a certain set reducing his HP by 30!!

Duane in Miami

Headers dont work. They will cause major torque loss especially the S car Go Ones.

Turbo03

Mr Sindi,

Do you never rest????
:-)

neil@Roock

always in overdrive

Shank996TT

Chad, You are probably correct that the headers would require retuning of the ECU and Air / Fuel Ratio.

I am sure msindi is looking for a bolt on setup. Just like I was, and Duane was, and Fred, and Nelson, (the list goes on,) and scargo sells the headers as a bolt on product. Infact, he did tell me "You don't need injectors, and tuning might get me 7HP."

To suggest to msindi, Duane IMO, is correct: The headers do not work, both long tubed and short tubed AS A DIRECT BOLT ON. But Chad is right too as it is apparent, and after seeing Chad's results, the "Sale of the headers to a customer" does not alone add horsepower, as perceived. You, after spending 2700.00 on the headers, must also RETUNE your ECU which can cost another pretty penny. As a conclusion, Scargo headers sold, is an incomplete product. People want a bolt on product, as advertised on their site, and as communicated to them by scargo. Scargo does sell it as a bolt on product...why else do they have By Design selling the product for them....When was "oh the afr has to be fine tuned too" mentioned?

Chad, not everyone expects to go the extra mile and fine tune and spend time and money on R&D and air fuel settings. Thanks to your experiences, and mine, people can save a ton of money and aggrivation. The ECU or Air Fuel Ratio settings.....Well your average customer will expect that part to be addressed from the GIAC or other programs, which you clearly proved is not the case.

Fred X50

Chad, as you know I have the S Car Go Short Headers. Duane and I ran our cars side by side. He definetly has me on torque. He tells me its the S Car go headers. If so, then I am very Pissed off for spending money on a product that actually lowers my HP/TQ. You have a great relationship with Rob and he will give you all the upgrades, etc at no cost. Me on the other hand spent thousands of dollars on a part that is inferior. If I go back to S Car Go and complain he will not give me updates without having me pay for them. So bottom line is that for someone like me who bought their ORIGINAL set, we are HOSED!

Sorry to vent, but I hate to find out I paid for headers that don't produce squat! I will actually find out in the next couple of weeks and document my findings to show everyone.

So Chad, what do you think I should do? Tell Rob that I had the old headers and will he do the upgrade at no cost?

msindi

Sounds like without retuning it is better to stay away from headers.
For those of you with GIAC, do you know if the people who sold you the GIACs would retune if provided with dyno sheets?? How much for a retune??

Oak

Seems pretty hard to beat the factory header design utilizing factory turbos. Bigger isn't alway better esp with fact turbos.

Fred X50

Chad,

Yes my fuel ratio was adjusted by Garret after I got the headers. But the fuel ratio problem I had was even before I had the S Car Go Headers put on. I will be happy to talk to Rob but I know he will ask for more money and I simply don't want to invest more time and money with a product that even you admit needs to be tuned again in order to work properly. In addition, Rob scratched my rims and painted them. When I called him on it, he immediately admitted it but that to me is VERY UNPROFFESSIONAL and since then I have lost ALL RESPECT for him. When you ruin a customers rims, you simply tell them you made a mistake, apologize, and NEVER try to hide your mistake by doing such a poor job in trying to PAINT over the scratch.

Again more venting, sorry ;-)

I will call Matt at ByDesign and get my refund.

Shank996TT

By the way, ALL of s car go's products are unproven!

We have yet to see a DYNO sheet on their claims.

Even Crook posted a dyno sheet on their site, even if it was fake.

<img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" />

Fred X50

Ok, spoke with Rob at S Car Go. I will take my car there and they will dyno my car with all their stuff and then dyno with stock headers. I will have them document everything. If we find that there is a loss in HP/TQ, then I will get a refund.

So I think this is the most proffessional thing to do. Documenting everything will tell the real story.

I will drop off my car on Saturday and get my car back on Thursday/Friday of next week. I will make sure as well that 1 week is tops ;-) Sorry CJV, but I can't have them have my car for as long as they have had yours. They have one week to prove their products. I do hope that is comes out well for me and S Car Go as well.

Fred

Shank996TT

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by cjv:
<strong>Ryan, I am very sorry you feel that way. Personally, I do not have a scanner.It bothers me to think you consider me a fake or un proven. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Boy You totally misread my comment. Chad, You are not scargo. You are only given information from scargo as I was. I don't consider you a fake at all, infact just the opposite. I would have never gone to Scargo, or done gearing, or most of my mods, without your input.

Your car is not a good example of the products that are meant for public sale. You have a million things different.

I am simply referring to the unproven products sold as bolt on items. When I ask Scargo, how much HP does your headers produce, then answer is always in the tone of "I haven't run numbers yet, but WOW, You can feel the difference..its unreal"
That, to me, is not proof <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> "However, A car is coming in this Monday that we'll test"...over 1 year has gone by, without proof.

Again, your car has too much variables, and when I mention scargo, don't think I mean "Chad=scargo"...I am talking of my personal experiences with them. Keep in mind,I called up the Dyno place to find out results of the Dyno, and they told me they will only disclose to ROB KING, as per his instructions. I then called Rob King to receive the numbers, and then later called the Dyno place to confirm the numbers, they pled the 5th....and said, Talk to Rob..He is our customer, not you (me)

Put yourself in my shoes.

Thanks,
Ryan

sharkster

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by cjv:
<strong>Ryan, I apologize for jumping to conclusions. Hopefully, Fred's car will come up with some solid answers to cars in the approximate 500 and under hp range.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Come on guys, don't shoot the messenger (CJV). He's been really helpful to all of us in terms of his story etc...

Fred X50

UPDATE:

After a day of thinking and talking with more porsche owners, I have decided not to have S Car Go do the Dyno Testing. (I will let Rob know of my decision)

Why?

1. Having S Car Go do the Dyno will not be a 3rd Party Independent Dyno.
2. They want my car for 1 week. If all they are planning to do is Dyno before and after, only 2-3 days is needed.
3. There should be no need to adjust anything. Modifying the ARF supposedly will not effect the numbers put out from the headers.
4. I don't want to have my car be their test mule. Reason being is that if they find out that their products DON'T work, they will want to keep my car till they get it right. I don't have time to give them my car and don't want them to do any adjustments. I paid for something that they said would produce #'s straight out of the box.

So I will have my car Dyno'd on Monday with their stuff. I will then have stock headers, throttle body, and splitters put back on. Will dyno again on Wednesday. We will make sure to document times, temperature and do identical runs.

This to me is the best way to really find out what works, doesn't work. Like they say, " You don't want your Auditors doing your Finances!"

Thanks everyone for all your suggestions and feedback.

Fred

Fred X50

My car running rich was a problem before I had the S Car Go stuff on it. Garrett simply corrected it. This should have no bearing what so ever with S Car Go's stuff. I do recall talking to you about my car running rich but that had nothing to do with S Car Go.

Anyways, I am not going to get into a discussion that will go back and forth. I think most people will be in agreement that doing a dyno by an independent shop without doing any modifications and simply doing a dyno before and after will tell the truth. Who knows maybe the S Car Go will have more HP/TQ, therefore the software might be the cause? I simply want to find out on my own.

I hope you can understand that.