Les Quam

I own an 02 GT 2 and laughed when the dealership told me to be careful. After all I had several years of shifter kart raceing and several seasons in Barber Dodge. Not to mention a season or two in viper racing league.Plus I already owned an X-50. My first impression of the GT2 was that Porsche misrepresented the HP of the GT2. It is unequivocally faster than my 03 X50 and feels more like the 500 plus HP vipers I had previuosly driven. We added weight to my X 50 (a fat friend)and it still cannot hang with the GT2. So I believe that is part of the problem. The GT2 commands your full attention and skill. Of the 10 here in vegas 2 have been totaled and 2 crashed. Who ever said it earlier, said it best if you buy this car you need to get training to drive it at it's limit. It is similar to buying an expensive piano and never learning to play.A driving school will only teach you so much. If you don't go out and apply the principles learned at a driving school.You will not be able to react quick enough in a car like a GT2.A shifter kart will teach you tremendous car control and if you race the kart that helps.An arrive and drive race series is also great. Otherwise an all wheel drive TT is the way to go if you do not have the time. I have had a couple of moments in my GT2 where the only thing that kept me from spinning out was years of racing. I have not spun this car yet, but it's coming. This GT2 is also faster than 460 horse vipers I have owned. I beleive the first step is to get several of these cars on a rear wheel dyno to see what actual HP they generate. I beleive it's closer to 500 than 456.

m42racer

Its no surprise that some of the best racing drivers have come from shifter kart racing. Some have almost come directly. I have been told by by more than 1 professional driver that the closest thing to a F1/Cart/Indy car is a 250 shifter Kart.
The acceleration, braking, and turn in are the same. Its also no surprise that these same drivers continue to practice in these Karts. If you can afford the cost of a GT2, you can afford the cost of a 250 shifter Kart. Actually, you may want to start in a 125 Kart. The 250 is probably more of a handful than the GT2. Who knows, you may even enjoy racing the Kart more than driving the GT2.

Les Quam

Very true, in the offseason here in Vegas rarely a day doesn't go by at the kart track where you don't find Paul Tracy, Jimmy Vasser,or the other local resident pro's training at the track. They all stick to 125's because they rev much higher. I also have been told it's the nearest thing to a real race car.Schmacher also still karts although I believe he doe's not use a shifter. They are not as popular in europe. Brazil either. The average offseason day for a pro is the gym in the morning. Lunch then karts in the afternoon. It's also a great way to meet these guys they love to talk karting are very accessible and are very laid back at the kart track.And they love to run with whoever steps out on the track. They feel no remorse after kicking your butt. To them karting is their roots the true essence of pure racing. Karting is really underappreciated in this country. But not by the pro's. Also you can buy a race ready 125 for about 8,500. If you avoid the high end rip off shops. That includes race ready motor also.

Deanger

Gee, I guess my post wasn't sensible...

As someone with over 4,500 miles in a GT2 on everything from a Track to Sunset Blvd, I stand by what I wrote -- The car is fantastic but finicky .01% of the time. The finicky part is something I discovered after a lot of serious investigative driving -- namely, different roads, different speeds...etc. Interestingly, where it differs from 930's and RS' is that you have less reaction time in a poorly tuned GT2 to mistakes then you do in those cars -- you also are dealing with a lot more power. The only place I ever spun the car was on the track, but that doesn't mean I drove it like a baby around town. There are two kinds of GT2 drivers -- those who have experienced a surprise and those who will. And as much as people can always assert driver-error, they miss a subtle point. There are cars that seem to follow a set of rules and behaviors, and then in one tiny percentage of the time, do something unexpected. Something DIFFERENT than similar cars do in similar situations. I do not know if the GT2 is such a car, all I do know is my understanding of the machine changed with every 100 miles of different driving.

For example, I am thorougly convinced that on poor, uneven country roads, even for a small stretch, the car can lull a driver into going at a brisk pace that can lead to problems. Problems whose severity is greater than a seasoned 930 driver would expect.

If one goes back and reads all my posts on this car, they will find an evolution in my thinking about it. One from only superlatives to superlatives with the most minor of reservations -- That reservation being that I believe if the car is not properly set-up even very seasoned drivers may get an unwelcome surprise on a slight rise, off camber turn...etc. My belief comes from driving the same roads in a GT2 as a 930...etc. It is not how this car reacts on the track that will sneak up on you -- as a track car it is outstanding.

None of which changes my continual assertion that this is the most fun Porsche I have driven.

PogueMoHone

Deanger,

I'm not sure that I understand your post, other than to assert that you are sensible. I don't know you, so I have no opinion either way.

With regard to driver error, I never mentioned it, and don't recall anyone else mentioning it either. What I referred to was driver fundamentals, which is quite a different matter. Good fundamental techniques will minimize driver errors. Driver stupidity that 's another topic

It is all about weight transfer, and I was subtly trying to refer to "wait" transfer as well.

Anyone who wants to drive a GT 2 well, needs professional training and lots of practice. But the same is true for any Porsche!

Explain to me what constitues a poorly tuned set up?

If one is playing "responsibly" on the roads, then it is prudent to be familiar with with every bump and turn. After all that 's what professionals do on the track (practice laps).

Driver error in my book is someone driving over their head, and thinks that because the car is fast, they can go fast.

Jared W.

I don't think it's fair to compare the GT2 to an RS or 930. It is similar to the RS in as much as the weight and suspension are concerned, and similar to the 930 in that it is also rear wheel drive and turbo charged. But that is where the similarities end. Neither the 930 nor the RS have near the horsepower that the GT2 has, and therefore will not be as tame under the same set of circumstances.

I live in a semi-rural setting in Orinda, Ca., where all the roads leading up to my house are winding, country roads. I have been driving them for over 12 years, and know them like the back of my hand. They are bumpy in some places, smooth in others, well maintained on occasion and very twisty generally. I have driven the GT2 up and down these roads fairly aggressively and haven' t yet gotten into trouble. Over bumps, the car can lose traction at one or more tires because the suspension has very little "give" that would allow the tire to drop down into the bump and maintain contact. But if you are aware of where these spots are, they are easy to negotiate.

If I was driving on roads I was unfamiliar with, there is no way I would approach the levels I do on familiar streets.

Even though I am familiar with the area, I never open the car all the way up on back roads. It just has too much power to control into a bumpy turn. But as long as you know how to keep the power in check, it is not "scary". This is not a car for everyone. It is not good for a relaxing sunday drive. But it is by far the best feeling car Porsche makes currently, and perhaps ever.

caneaddict

Hamann
My advice to you would be to get the GT3 not the GT2. The reasoning is that you drive canyon roads where one miscue can lead to death. As Dean pointed out, the GT2 can react "differently" than expected .01% of the time. If you are driving mainly on twisty country roads that you know, then the GT2 would be great because you can get to know the bumps. But since the majority of your driving will be on canyon roads, it just seems too risky. You will constantly be pulled to go further with the car so don't try to convince yourself that you will stay 8/10 limit. Clearly regular driving at 9/10 on canyon roads is just not worth the risk. The added excitement of the GT2 over the GT3 compared to your life is a no brainer.

However, if you mainly would be using the car at the track and regular twisty non-canyon roads, I would suggest the GT2. I'm sure you could learn to drive it very well and responsibly like Dean. Its just those canyons that would make me nod towards the GT3.

Hamann7

Actually, in all fairness, even a 996TT can be quite a handful without PSM on and gobs of power.

I spun Wilber's car at the track when I got a little too happy with the throttle coming out of a curve. Mind you, this happened at partial, not full, throttle. That's what happens with 550hp to the wheels, AWD, turbo lag, and PSM off. You get to do some nice, big, rapid doughnuts

That was an important lesson learned.

Watt, what do you think? How does wilber's monster TT drive compared to a GT2?

I hear his car is setup much differently now. The boost comes on earlier, and there is lots more power. Sounds like fun.

Deanger

I merely compared the GT2 to a 930 and RS because I've read others that have done so. And Colm, my reply was not to you, but to the previous one that had mentioned mine and others' post as implicitly without sense.

The original point of this thread was is the GT2 inherently dangerous -- my answer to that is a resounding no. My one fear is that good drivers, who have a very good understanding of their cars, will grow overconfident in the car, especially as very few of them take the time to do truly learn the car. And by learn the car, I don't mean just drive it around fast. I mean take some of the understeer out of it, take it to a track, take it to a skidpad...etc. And after you've done all that, use that technique on a section of track that is not the best -- watch your car hit a bump and spin where your TT would have never spun even with PSM off -- Then you will have a long and happy life with your GT2.

Sun Ra

WILBUR'S car is quick, but a gt2 is a completely different trip: more tossable, light, quick and responsive. it's the finest porsche ever.

Hamann7

Well, I guess I will wait for Watt's report on GT2 vs. GT3 since we drive virtually the same canyon roads on a daily basis.

caneaddict

Hamann,
I know you had previously mentioned that your company will be leasing your Porsche for you. So do you get to own the car at the end or does it belong to the company. The reason I ask is that a $140,000 GT2 will probably hold its value better than a $124,000 GT3.

JeffES

Well, there are old drivers, and there are bold drivers, but there are no old, bold drivers... or something like that!...
In "street" setup, the GT2 is definitly a bit "harnessed", while in "sport", it's a great drive - but one must be smoooooth.
As an FYI - was on a project years ago for a dealer w/a Ferrari point - and this same question came up, so I asked it of their Representative - he had documentation showing that of the 100 sales one year out, 61 of those cars owners had purchased body parts....
Jeff

Hamann7

Yes, the car is mine at the end. Don't really care as much about the resale value. I think the GT3 will hold its value pretty well over the long run.

dark knight

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by JeffES:
<strong>and this same question came up, so I asked it of their Representative - he had documentation showing that of the 100 sales one year out, 61 of those cars owners had purchased body parts....
Jeff</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">can this really be true? over 60% are damaged already? I'm sure many of these cars are garage queens, at least 39 of em are