Me? I sound like a tosser? You’re the one who wrote a 3-day-old-to-you GT2 off.
Then you come on the board to impress everybody or illicit sympathy or something.
Black ice my ****. My guess is no body else went off. Everybody else coped.
You are a boy aren’t you? And now you’ve got another one! God save us. Yes, please let us know how you get on with this one …

 

For the record, it is NOT like a GT2 is a freaking death-mobile. Reports of its volatility are greatly exaggerated. Unless Darren got hard on the throttle, and I mean hard, his car would not do what it had done naturally. This means Ice. People tend to forget that the GT2 has an unbelievable amount of grip, and stunning handling. Would PSM have helped? Possibly, and that is what is nice about it, and if it worked on RWD cars would be nice to have.

A GT2 is not a 996TT evil twin. More like a high-spirited cousin.

 

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by Deanger:
<strong>Unless Darren got hard on the throttle, and I mean hard, his car would not do what it had done naturally. This means Ice. People tend to forget that the GT2 has an unbelievable amount of grip, and stunning handling.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">I doubt it was ice Deanger.

FWI, and after three pages of opinion I freely admit, not much, from DC's decription, I guess this is what happened:

1) he powered up to pass the truck.
2) but now he is going faster than he really wants to on the roads.
3) he backs off the throttle completely and at the same time swings it too hard back into lane.
4) back end pops out -- not from too much power but from classic no throttle overstear.
5) countersteer but isn't enough with zero power.
6) applies brakes and that's the end.

The correction is to be smoother on the throttle and when he first realised the problem he not only had to counter-steer but also get back in the power to transfer weight to the back.

I will guess that the intial back-end swing was to the left (RHD car). He swung back in too quickly and then straightened it up but the back end kept going.

I've had the same thing happen at much higher speeds in emergency situations in the Turbo. Full power helped. PSM did too.

Stephen

 

boys,
Aloha--
let's go run them hard, and every one can make their own triumphs, mistakes and improvements in their skills. it's fun and occasionally we stuff one. big deal, it's metal.

 

Stick with the GT2. I own a 91 C2, my Dad just bought a GT2. He test drove several high end cars from Ferrari, Lambo, Aston Martin etc. This is his 5th Porsche, and brand bias aside, he felt the GT2 was the best of the bunch. But not the turbo X50. It was too unresponsive for him.

I have had several rides in X50 turbos, and have driven his GT2. The GT2 is the only car Porsche makes that still feels like a Porsche. There is no reason that after safely exploring the cars potential you should be able to drive it safely.

 

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by dc911:
<strong>
... if you are so worried about your insurance cost then maybe you ought to look into buying something that might suit you better like maybe a mini??? just a suggestion.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva"><img src="http://www.986host.com/albums/FixedWing/Office_cars_23.sized.jpg" alt=" - " />

... and it was the Mini that got written off.

Stephen

 

Ruf R Turbo...Power, PSM, Warranty.

 

Fixedwing --

You may be right of course, but based on what I read of his initial post I find it hard to believe. At 45mph in 4th the GT2 is not going to behave as you've suggested

UNLESS

In attempting to pass in 4th at 45 (which would be strange come to think of it) he got all the way on the gas. In this case full boost will take about 3 seconds to kick in. Thus at first he won't be picking up much speed, and then really accelerating just as he cuts in front of the lorry.

HOWEVER

I don't think that is what he is describing. If it is, then, well, any RWD porsche without PSM is going to spin like a top. In all honesty though, this would be a poor but of driving and it didn't seem like what I read.

I guess we need more info. Most wanted to say that the GT2 is not as easy to mess up in as people think. Especially not at speeds under 100.

Of course I never go over the speed limit so... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

 

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by Deanger:
<strong>
Of course I never go over the speed limit so... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Speed limit? What's that????

I agree with you Deanger that we really don't have enough info (and probably never will as DJ didn't seem to know either -- he initially spoke of a blown tyre which is most unlikely to have been the cause).

But I really do think what I'm describing is more likely. These tyres don't have much traction in the cold and sanding the roads would make it even more problematic. The tyres are very big and will break very quickly. The high-compression 3.6L engine has good engine braking on the LSD back end. And let's not forget DJ's emphasis on how slow the conditions were. Not difficult on narrow (hedge lined) roads in England to find yourself going too fast after passing a truck in a GT2. It would be natural to get by the truck and close the throttle when past. The only way you'd be in the throttle hard (in 4th?) is if you were really going for it and that doesn't sound like it was the case. On the throttle you will get a rear weight bias and more traction. Off the throttle you will get a front weight bias and less traction at the back so easier to break traction.

And even if it did start out as power oversteer, it is pretty obvious that it quickly changed to closed-throttle-oversteer. DJ talks about getting on the brake. He didn't say so but I think you can bet on it that he closed the throttle after the car started to slide if it wasn't already closed. He says that he got on the brakes and you cannot do that without getting off the gas (excluding the rally drivers among us of course). He also doesn't say that he depressed the clutch.

FWIW, I think that the closed-throttle oversteer is the bigger problem. The power oversteer you are talking about is easier to control. The appropriate response is the natural one (back off the power just a little -- or maybe not at all -- and counter-steer). But with closed-throttle-oversteer the correct response is unnatural. You really must get back in the power very quickly. If you don't then counter-steering won't be enough. If the weight is off the back then it isn't going to hook-up again (and if it does it will probably snap the other way).

I think it is a big mistake to think that this is only a high-speed trait.

And yes, a simple C2 will do it too (though only a few have LSD). The only difference is that the back tyres are so big on the GT2 and so there is higher limits with more of a snap to them.

Stephen

 

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by dc911:
<strong>
Was in 4th gear...</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">I mentioned this before, but sort of dismissed it, but the more I think about it -- 4th gear makes no sense at all!! Who passes in 4th gear when the car in front of you is doing 45?

In the GT2 4th gear at 45 is 2100 RPM -- And by the time you are at 65 you are at the all mighty 3100 RPM.

Why am I saying this? Because the more I think about it, the more I think fixedwing may be right. Please do not by a GT2 if you are going to make a pass on slick roads at 45 in 4th gear. Because here is what will happen:

Not a lot at first. So you put the throttle all the way in. Just as you are mid pass -- you start to feel the boost, you stay on the throttle, you think you know the acceleration rate of your car. Now you are about to complete the pass, but your GT2 is near 3000rpm or more and you car is about to experience a signficiant increase in your RATE OF ACCELERATION. Suddenly, you are going a lot faster than you think so you let off the gas enitrely as you tuck in... on slick roads... add a touch of brake...

Bottom line. 4th gear is not for passing at 45 mph. Especially on slick roads. You want to avoid having to put the throttle to the floor to build speed. Next time try 2nd gear.

 

DC

I take it you are buying the silver GT2 from here:

<a href="http://www.williamloughran.co.uk" target="_blank">william loughran - Candy store for rich guys!</a>

The 600 HP twin turbo GT3 sounds better value for money!!