Bill S.

I knew this would eventually happen, but I didn't think this soon. Car & Driver tested the new 4719 lb 4-door Mercedes S600. It's twin-turbo V-12 allows the car to reach a 1/4-mile in 12.5 seconds @ 115 mph by just flooring it and hanging on. Car & Driver tested the 3500-lb 996 TT at 12.3 @ 116 MPH with a hard launch. 5-60 Mercedes street start is 4.5 seconds, the Porsche is 5.2 seconds.

It's no longer like the old days when a Porsche Turbo was, by far, the fastest accelerating car you could buy.

By the way, Car & Driver also tested the Enzo:

0-60: 3.3 seconds
0-100: 6.6 seconds
1/4-mile: 11.2 @ 136 MPH

Hopefully Porsche takes notice and puts a twin-turbo version of their V10 in a 996-like body. I'm sure Mercedes or BMW will do it very soon (i.e., powerful V8 or V12 engine is a lightweight vehicle).

HBdirtbag

Treynor put the maybach ECU on his car and threw on some BFG's and is hitting 11.6's in his S600!

Also, I couldn't believe the stats on the Enzo when I read them, it swept every category. I couldn't believe the 1/4 mile when you know the car doesn't even get going till about 100

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" />

here is a video:

<a href="http://www.treynor.com/BenzvsSupra.wmv" target="_blank">http://www.treynor.com/BenzvsSupra.wmv</a>

Frank Sinatra

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by soon2be993TT:
<strong>Treynor put the maybach ECU on his car and threw on some BFG's and is hitting 11.6's in his S600!

Also, I couldn't believe the stats on the Enzo when I read them, it swept every category. I couldn't believe the 1/4 mile when you know the car doesn't even get going till about 100

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" />

here is a video:

<a href="http://www.treynor.com/BenzvsSupra.wmv" target="_blank">http://www.treynor.com/BenzvsSupra.wmv</a></strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">I cant wait untill people start chipping the new twin turbo S600. Thats gonna be really impressive

ROCMAN

I'm not sure about the S600, but the CL55 did a top speed of 187. The only car that topped it was the Lambo. No Porsches in the test though. I drive the CL55 and my Modded TT, and the TT is faster, but then again, my TT is 540HP. I would take on any stock TT in my CL.

sharkster

that was my pal Silvino in the supra. We know Treynor and he has a couple of viper's he sometimes takes to the strip as well. The S600 has a Renntech chip and BFGs on the back... 118mph trap speed is pretty decent for a car that heavy...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by soon2be993TT:
<strong>Treynor put the maybach ECU on his car and threw on some BFG's and is hitting 11.6's in his S600!

Also, I couldn't believe the stats on the Enzo when I read them, it swept every category. I couldn't believe the 1/4 mile when you know the car doesn't even get going till about 100

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" />

here is a video:

<a href="http://www.treynor.com/BenzvsSupra.wmv" target="_blank">http://www.treynor.com/BenzvsSupra.wmv</a></strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">

sharkster

He's not going to be doing 180mph with BFG drag radials is he? Also, the speed govern is set to 155mph but I'm sure the Renntech chip overides that..

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by cjv:
<strong>Bill,

What is the top end of the S600? I don't know but I would be willing to guess it isn't 190 mph. If you sacrifice top end you can do wonders with the lower end???

I'm still running a internally stock 3.6 l Porsche motor. How many car lenghts handicap do you think I would have to give to the S600 in any contest? <img border="0" alt="[hiha]" title="" src="graemlins/roflmao.gif" /> The Enzo's handicap wouldn't be much less?

The fact is Porsche could ring 600 hp from their current motor with little to no trouble and still be very streetable. Weather Porsche believes there is a profitable market for such cars is unknown.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">

HBdirtbag

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by cjv:
<strong>Frank,

Wasn't it the latest Road & Track that compared the Enzo to several of the best they tested? I don't believe the Enzo was the "best" in any catagory. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">I just read the stats at the airport on monday. It had like 6 or 8 record breaking stats. Forgot what mag.

msindi

The cover of the latest Road & Track (July 2003) says:
"Ferrari Enzo
WOW!
1500-mile road test
Best 0-60
Best 1/4 mile
Best 0-100
Best Slalom
Best 80-0 Braking"
No radio though

Frank Sinatra

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by cjv:
<strong>Frank,

Wasn't it the latest Road & Track that compared the Enzo to several of the best they tested? I don't believe the Enzo was the "best" in any catagory. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">You need to ask soon2be, i didnt post what you are refering to.

Bill S.

cjv,

The S600 is governed to 130 MPH. However, being it's twin-turbocharged with 493 HP @ 5000 RPM and 590 lb-ft @ 1800 RPM I'd say it wouldn't have a problem at low or high speeds (the CL55 has proven that with a smaller engine!).

Point is, do you think your might have done a bit more if you started with a showroom-stock 36-valve 5.5-liter twin-turbocharged V-12 with aluminum block and heads?

Porsche went from 424 HP in 1996 to 450 HP in 2003 (with hardly any change in acceleration times). 26 HP and a few tenths of a second in 7 years? I would have expected a little more. GM, BMW, Ferrari and now Mercedes are passing them up!

yhw

My tt is stick shift, and not wanting to fry the clutch all too soon, I was never quick off the line. Doesn't really matter to me, I chose the stick shift so that I can be "involved". Don't think you can say that with the mb.

Hamann7

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by cjv:
<strong> I don't know but I would be willing to guess it isn't 190 mph. If you sacrifice top end you can do wonders with the lower end???

The Enzo's handicap wouldn't be much less?

The fact is Porsche could ring 600 hp from their current motor with little to no trouble and still be very streetable. Weather Porsche believes there is a profitable market for such cars is unknown.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">cjv, with a delimited ECU, the S600 would have no problem hitting 190, maybe even more. They say that the SL 55 can hit speeds of well over 200mph, but no one made proper tires to sustain those speeds for extended periods for a 4500lb. car. This is with stock gearing.

As for your comment about the Enzo. With all due respect, your car sounds incredible and I'm sure it could beat an Enzo in a straight line for certain intervals (certainly not top speed), but do you really believe that your car will defeat an Enzo under any conditions?

I think you are overlooking the importance of light weight on the track. The Turbo is a pig compared to the Enzo. The Enzo also has far superior aerodynamics to your Techart/GT2 aero. At high speeds on the track, as you know, this stuff makes a huge difference.

As for Porsche offering 600bhp cars, I think longevity and reliability were also key concerns. Obviously the cars are detuned for these reasons. I hope you will prove me wrong, Chad, but I doubt your 750hp motor will run over 100,000 miles without a significant overhaul. A stock TT probably will. A stock TT will also probably require less maintenance and be otherwise more reliable than your monster motor. But alas, only time will tell. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

As you have found out through your painfully long tuning experience, you can't gain something without sacrifice.

IsThisThatSerious

Bill,

You have a good point. I think Porsche could have made "more performance" improvements between the 993 and 996 TTs. Here's to hoping that the next TT iteration will be a leap ahead.

However I also think that the same argument could be made for the 993 and 996 NA models. In my opinion the HP output in the GT3 model should have been the HP output in the standard Carrera in the first place. I think it would make the car more "respectable" and drives a bigger lead over cars like the 350Z and Lancer EVO while enhancing the overall package of a sports car.

I know it's hard to just pinpoint HP, but in this day and age when MB and BMW have higher HPs in their sedans, and cars like the Lancer EVO has the same HP...it's hard to ignore performance figures.

Still though...there is no substitute in the experience of driving a Porsche.

treynor

As reported, my chip + DRs S600 is running 11.6-11.8 @ 118-119 in the 1/4. I have hit 121.3 mph on a 62F day.

That said, the S600 is obviously a very different car from the 996. For a roadcourse, I'd take the 996 in a heartbeat. For a 6-hour roadtrip with 4 people and luggage, and even for day-in, day-out commuting in traffic, the S is the best I've ever driven.

I do agree that it's time for Porsche to start upping the ante on performance. A $80K Viper SRT/10 will rip the lungs out of a $120K 996 turbo in acceleration, braking, and several other performance measures. That's just not right.

IsThisThatSerious

Treynor,

Enough said. I wonder though if we compared the Viper to the 996TT...what the material and assembly cost is. From that perspective I wonder if the 996TT is such a good deal. Afterall if both cars cost similar margins for their production, then we should see a hell of a lot more from Porsche for the MSRP prices.

From another perspective though, I wonder if Porsche needed to make such a big margin to keep itself afloat. Vipers have the giant backing of Daimler-Chrysler to help maintain it's image even if it lost money (ie. NSX ?)

Also I know it's hard to knock performance once it's in the 4 sec 0~60 range and everything else following, but there seems to be a war going on to gain more respect out there...and the tool seems to be HP in the world of performance. Never before had I looked at MB as a serious competitor in the performance car segment, but with their new 55 and 600 models... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" />

Hamann7,

If MB and BMW (next M5) can make sustainable and reliable cars bearing 500 HP, Porsche almost has no excuse.