Tip quicker than stick....
02-15-2006, 11:48 AM
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Tip quicker than stick....
The new 997 TT....
A 911 Turbo equipped with the optional 5-speed Tiptronic S automatic transmission requires only 3.4 seconds to sprint from 0 to 60 mph (0-100 km/h; 3.7 sec.). Equipped with the standard six-speed manual transmission, the new 911 Turbo reaches the same 60 mph mark in 3.7 seconds (0-100 km/h; 3.9 sec.). With either gearbox, the top track speed of the new 911 Turbo is 193 mph.
Cant wait to upgrade my 03 TT Tip...well, in 3 years when the $140k 997 sells for $90k. Gotta love buying used!
Peace out.
A 911 Turbo equipped with the optional 5-speed Tiptronic S automatic transmission requires only 3.4 seconds to sprint from 0 to 60 mph (0-100 km/h; 3.7 sec.). Equipped with the standard six-speed manual transmission, the new 911 Turbo reaches the same 60 mph mark in 3.7 seconds (0-100 km/h; 3.9 sec.). With either gearbox, the top track speed of the new 911 Turbo is 193 mph.
Cant wait to upgrade my 03 TT Tip...well, in 3 years when the $140k 997 sells for $90k. Gotta love buying used!
Peace out.
02-15-2006, 12:25 PM
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I was only joking of course,
keep in mind it will be about "25 below" windchill here later today,
I am having brain freeze,
The tippy works well for daily drivers.
Marty
keep in mind it will be about "25 below" windchill here later today,
I am having brain freeze,
The tippy works well for daily drivers.
Marty
02-15-2006, 01:44 PM
#4
Nordschleife Master
Dustman,
The difference in the 0-60 times (a poor test of any high performance car, btw) is probably attributed to the gearing... the 5-spd tip doesn't have to make a shift before 60, while the 6-speed manual does. More interesting is the higher speed ranges where the tip is faster than the manual... faster shifts in the tip means less boost-loss during the shift process. Nothing wrong with tiptronic... its just not for me...
The difference in the 0-60 times (a poor test of any high performance car, btw) is probably attributed to the gearing... the 5-spd tip doesn't have to make a shift before 60, while the 6-speed manual does. More interesting is the higher speed ranges where the tip is faster than the manual... faster shifts in the tip means less boost-loss during the shift process. Nothing wrong with tiptronic... its just not for me...
02-15-2006, 10:28 PM
#7
I'm definitely not buying the tip's faster than the manual. Probably a marketing ploy by Porsche to help justify not getting the DSG gearbox together on time and putting the same old 5 speed automatic in the latest version of their "top" car.
Both the manual and the tip need to shift before 60MPH. However, there ar LOTS of variables in getting the best off-the-line performance in a manual. How much rear wheel hop you can stand is just one of them. I sure the magazines will clutch-drop the manual to faster times than the tip.
Both the manual and the tip need to shift before 60MPH. However, there ar LOTS of variables in getting the best off-the-line performance in a manual. How much rear wheel hop you can stand is just one of them. I sure the magazines will clutch-drop the manual to faster times than the tip.
Last edited by WCE; 02-15-2006 at 10:50 PM.
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02-16-2006, 04:59 AM
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The difference in the 0-60 times (a poor test of any high performance car, btw)
Too bad its what the entire automotive industry is using and has used for some time as a performance benchmark.
I actually happen to think it is a very important real world driving test myself. If you arent on a track, the only fun you can have is zero to sixty. And I want mine to be blistering...
Also, what causes you to think the gearing is any different between the tip and the manual? Is that the case with the previous tip? Or did you mean final drive ratio, or differential gearing? I would have thought it was purely down to shifting speed, and the resultant lack of loss to torque under power.
Also, other then the new corvette (which supposedly does it), is there a (production) car that has ever done 0 - 60 in first gear?
I always thought that fact that the 996 tip was slower was an anomaly myself and not the norm with other tip cars.
02-16-2006, 05:51 AM
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A manual is 6 gears and a tip is 5 gears, how can they be the same ratios?
Here are the different gear ratios for the 996TT:
Manual and approx speed with 295s at redline..
1st:3.82 --> 38mph
2nd:2.05--> 71 mph
3rd:1.41 --> 104mph
4th:1.12 --> 132mph
5th:0.92 --> 161mph
6th:0.75
Tip:
1st:3.59 --> 44mph
2nd:2.19 --> 73mph
3rd:1.41 --> 115mph
4th:1.0 --> 163mph
5th:0.083
Both (996TT) cars need to shift once to get to 60mph, the 996TT Tiptronic shifts faster but is offset with a taller 1st gear, it does not beat the manual.
For the 997TT, two scenarios:
First: If the new 997TT has 19 inch wheels, a 7000RPM rev limiter and a 3:15 1 st. gear like the CUP cars and several other Motorsport gearboxes, then they reach 60 mph in 1st. with the tiptronic, no shifting, and then you beat the manual. Good marketing.
Second: 997TT Tiptronic has a shorter 1st gear, almost, or the same final ratio like the manual 997TT, therefore will accelerate as strong, but shift faster by 0.2s or so, therefore beat the manual to 60mph.
As far as the 0-200km/h run (124mph) the manual 997TT will be in 4th gear whereas the Tip will be in 3rd gear to achieve those speeds. One shift less and 0.2s faster per shift on the Tiptronic will offset the negative impact on acceleration of its taller gears, and it will beat the manual transmission.
A bit far fetched, but not that unlikely.
Here are the different gear ratios for the 996TT:
Manual and approx speed with 295s at redline..
1st:3.82 --> 38mph
2nd:2.05--> 71 mph
3rd:1.41 --> 104mph
4th:1.12 --> 132mph
5th:0.92 --> 161mph
6th:0.75
Tip:
1st:3.59 --> 44mph
2nd:2.19 --> 73mph
3rd:1.41 --> 115mph
4th:1.0 --> 163mph
5th:0.083
Both (996TT) cars need to shift once to get to 60mph, the 996TT Tiptronic shifts faster but is offset with a taller 1st gear, it does not beat the manual.
For the 997TT, two scenarios:
First: If the new 997TT has 19 inch wheels, a 7000RPM rev limiter and a 3:15 1 st. gear like the CUP cars and several other Motorsport gearboxes, then they reach 60 mph in 1st. with the tiptronic, no shifting, and then you beat the manual. Good marketing.
Second: 997TT Tiptronic has a shorter 1st gear, almost, or the same final ratio like the manual 997TT, therefore will accelerate as strong, but shift faster by 0.2s or so, therefore beat the manual to 60mph.
As far as the 0-200km/h run (124mph) the manual 997TT will be in 4th gear whereas the Tip will be in 3rd gear to achieve those speeds. One shift less and 0.2s faster per shift on the Tiptronic will offset the negative impact on acceleration of its taller gears, and it will beat the manual transmission.
A bit far fetched, but not that unlikely.
02-16-2006, 05:12 PM
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Why is the existing tip so much slower per the P-website? I read a R&T or C&D article that tested a tip cab. From memory, 0-60 was either as fast or faster than the 6 speed. Does anybody else remember this? Probably within the last 6 months...
I assume the tip is totally redesigned in the 997 to provide such improved performance??
I assume the tip is totally redesigned in the 997 to provide such improved performance??
02-16-2006, 09:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Jean
A manual is 6 gears and a tip is 5 gears, how can they be the same ratios?
Here are the different gear ratios for the 996TT:
Manual and approx speed with 295s at redline..
1st:3.82 --> 38mph
2nd:2.05--> 71 mph
3rd:1.41 --> 104mph
4th:1.12 --> 132mph
5th:0.92 --> 161mph
6th:0.75
Tip:
1st:3.59 --> 44mph
2nd:2.19 --> 73mph
3rd:1.41 --> 115mph
4th:1.0 --> 163mph
5th:0.083
Both (996TT) cars need to shift once to get to 60mph, the 996TT Tiptronic shifts faster but is offset with a taller 1st gear, it does not beat the manual.
For the 997TT, two scenarios:
First: If the new 997TT has 19 inch wheels, a 7000RPM rev limiter and a 3:15 1 st. gear like the CUP cars and several other Motorsport gearboxes, then they reach 60 mph in 1st. with the tiptronic, no shifting, and then you beat the manual. Good marketing.
Second: 997TT Tiptronic has a shorter 1st gear, almost, or the same final ratio like the manual 997TT, therefore will accelerate as strong, but shift faster by 0.2s or so, therefore beat the manual to 60mph.
As far as the 0-200km/h run (124mph) the manual 997TT will be in 4th gear whereas the Tip will be in 3rd gear to achieve those speeds. One shift less and 0.2s faster per shift on the Tiptronic will offset the negative impact on acceleration of its taller gears, and it will beat the manual transmission.
A bit far fetched, but not that unlikely.
Here are the different gear ratios for the 996TT:
Manual and approx speed with 295s at redline..
1st:3.82 --> 38mph
2nd:2.05--> 71 mph
3rd:1.41 --> 104mph
4th:1.12 --> 132mph
5th:0.92 --> 161mph
6th:0.75
Tip:
1st:3.59 --> 44mph
2nd:2.19 --> 73mph
3rd:1.41 --> 115mph
4th:1.0 --> 163mph
5th:0.083
Both (996TT) cars need to shift once to get to 60mph, the 996TT Tiptronic shifts faster but is offset with a taller 1st gear, it does not beat the manual.
For the 997TT, two scenarios:
First: If the new 997TT has 19 inch wheels, a 7000RPM rev limiter and a 3:15 1 st. gear like the CUP cars and several other Motorsport gearboxes, then they reach 60 mph in 1st. with the tiptronic, no shifting, and then you beat the manual. Good marketing.
Second: 997TT Tiptronic has a shorter 1st gear, almost, or the same final ratio like the manual 997TT, therefore will accelerate as strong, but shift faster by 0.2s or so, therefore beat the manual to 60mph.
As far as the 0-200km/h run (124mph) the manual 997TT will be in 4th gear whereas the Tip will be in 3rd gear to achieve those speeds. One shift less and 0.2s faster per shift on the Tiptronic will offset the negative impact on acceleration of its taller gears, and it will beat the manual transmission.
A bit far fetched, but not that unlikely.
Jean I love that avatar... Shame yours is no "SportMatic" hehe!
02-22-2006, 01:22 AM
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Maybe in the 996 too. Found the 'tip' article in C&D.
http://www.caranddriver.com/article....rticle_id=8415
If so, why was the Porsche website so far off?
http://www.caranddriver.com/article....rticle_id=8415
If so, why was the Porsche website so far off?
02-22-2006, 01:55 AM
#15
Nordschleife Master
The reason that I think that 0-60 times are not a good test of a performance car is that it measures tires, traction, launch technique, and the driver's willingness to abuse the machinery more than it measures horsepower. It is more important in cars with limited horsepower. If you drag-race your car, you are probably interested in 0-60 times. In that case, you'll probably want some drag radials, and really rack up some numbers.