rbcsaver

it does

steve

paneraiwatches

Where did you get this information? My x50 has a strengthened tranny no pccb I'll give you that one but what about the torque statement?

ColorChange

So about as I thought, a stage 1 is a wash with an X50 package, and stage 2 or higher will be quite a bit better.

BobbyC

PCNA...owners handbook.

paneraiwatches

I have a hard time believing that according to PCNA owners handbook The Turbo S has a bit more low-end torque than the earlier X50's plus a strengthened tranny? Can you post a scan of the book, I have seen it many times and dont recall it saying anything close to that. I call B.S on this one, sorry pal
Cheers,
Steve

BobbyC

Getting a little hot under the collar, eh?

Well, here you go...

Page 4, Porsche 911 Turbo S handbook..."Modified twin turbochargers and an upgraded 3.6 liter engine produce more horsepower and more torque than any Turbo model preceding it, yet do so with greater efficiency"...

From Dyno Chart on page 33 (same handbook):

RPMs ~ Tq ~ Hp

1000 ~ 221 ~ 50
2000 ~ 320 ~ 105
3000 ~ 440 ~ 275
3500 ~ 457 ~ 325
4000 ~ 457 ~ 350
5000 ~ 440 ~ 400
6000 ~ 390 ~ 430
6500 ~ 350 ~ 444

And one more thing...you may want to ignore the numbers and go get some seat time in a Turbo S. Maybe, just maybe, you'll get it!

paneraiwatches

Same exact numbers for any year 02-05 TT X50! Cool at least I know an X50 is an X50 Turbo S or not. Oh yeah heres Porsches official release on the X50 package:

If you want a little extra: "Exclusive" makes it possible
Porsche 911 Carrera and 911 Turbo with even more power

Stuttgart. The Porsche individual "Exclusive" programme for the 911 Turbo and 911 Carrera models offers even more reserves of power than a sports car from Zuffenhausen normally provides. On the 911 Turbo, the power kit increases the engine power from 420 BHP (309 kW) at 5000 RPM to 450 BHP (331 kW) at 5700 RPM. At the same time, a maximum torque that has risen to 620 Nm (standard: 560 Nm) is now available between 3,500 and 4,400 URPM. The figure of 560 Nm, which the standard engine provides between 2,700 and 4,600 RPM, is now available between 2,700 and 5,600 RPM on the higher-performance 911 Turbo. This means that its power can be called upon over an extremely wide range of engine speeds. With the acceleration remaining unchanged at 4.2 seconds for 0-100 km/h, the maximum speed has risen from 305 to 307 km/h.

The Porsche engineers have managed to achieve this improvement in power and performance by making modifications, which primarily affect the turbocharger, charge cooler, controllers and exhaust system. The basic designs of the manual and automatic gearboxes have both been reinforced, which means that the increased power can be ordered at a recommended price of 12,644 Euro (price in Germany, including VAT) even for the 911 Turbo Tiptronic. Its maximum speed increases from 298 to 300 km/h with a reduction of the acceleration from 0 to 100 km/h of almost half a second, to 4.5 seconds.

JPschnitzer

The one thing to keep in mind here is that all horses are not created equally. Porsche horses like the 444hp for the x50 stated above is very conservative, that figure is meant to be very bulletproof, like the car will make that HP in Death Valley on a 130 degree day using 87 octane. Tuner horses, well, they are usually wildly optimistic, and done under perfect conditions.....It is also well known that Porsche is very conservative with the HP figure on the GT3.....So take your pick, you want Porsche horses, or tuner horses?

Dock

Easy answer!... I want "tuner" horses.

1AS

Recall that after CJV spent a truckload of cash on his car, it was tested in Excellence and blew absolutely nothing away, despite 4 drag tires. I have no doubt that some tuner cars are extraordinarily strong, but longevity of the hp curve, reproducability away from the development shop, and troubleshooting all add variables that make it hard to say, "This mod blows away an X50"
When RandT and other mags have had showdowns, not every tuner car is there for the end. If you live in the referral basin of some of our esteemed contributors, it may be workable. Outside of ready driving distance, the stage "x" seems to be a crapshoot.
To make any sense for the non-mechanical-genius owner, the car has to be bulletproof. The X50 is. Much of the rest requires the voluntary suspension of disbelief, and the triumph of hope over sense. And the willingness to walk away from your warranty. AS

Dock

And dynos, along with SOTP data, nail down those variables, making it easy to say a Stage X is quicker/pulls harder than an X50.


And the non-X50 isn't?

No, it requires common sense... and a ride in a GIAC Stage 2 Turbo.

As for warranty work, it depends on the dealer *IF* you run into a problem

1AS

Don't mean to be argumentative or trivial. On the 6 speed site, a long thread involved a multi-car shootout. One of the posters was an entrant with significant difficulties demonstrating the promised horsepower, complicating multiple mechanical problems that required expert mechanical assistance. The CJV car must be stage Xcubed. It barely beat a stock GT2 in Excellence, despite about 5,000 dyno miles proving its superiority. Those are anecdotes, but may cause doubts.
I really do believe that your car is stronger than mine. But, I'm just not sure everybody can buy the package and duplicate the results with predictability and reliability. There have been posts of guys with CEL concerns and blown off tubing. To really know about your mods, you'd need 5th wheel or GPS performance data and dyno sheets PRE and POST mod. There was a long article in CandD(I think) about an interview with Dinan. He pointed out that chassis dyno results do not transelate to the road unless you can blow 100mph air over the car. The air flow impacts air induction, and the smaller fans generally used for cooling during dyno runs don't.
As for the warranty, isn't "depends on the dealer, IF you run into a problem", a crapshoot? If you run into a problem, you may not have a warranty. The whole thing makes more sense after the car is off warranty.
For guys who are past the point of caring because of economic invulnerability, my points are moot. If it does matter, then each owner weighs the extra thrill versus the extra risk. But, the value of the thrill is very subjective. After a while, you get used to all horsepower levels, and the shock you got with the first kick in the back acceleration becomes less shocking. It's also increasingly difficult to find the spots to experience it, unless you are on a track, whereupon investment in driving skills has greater yields. Just my opinion, after about 40 years of racing and mods(and multiple cars with over 550 engine dyno hp). AS

PogueMoHone

AS

Your comments are sage advice, and should be heeded by all!

Dock

There are many dynos posted over on 6speed that show that the modified cars are producing what the tuner claims.

As for CEL problems, I know of some problems with the other tuner's chips, but not with the GIAC products. I can say I haven't had *any* problems at all with my GIAC Stage 2 upgrade. And it drives just like the stock Turbo until you put your foot in it.

Here's my take on warranty as it relates to my Stage 2...the GT2 and the X50 both produce more power than my stock Turbo did. This increased power, especially in the GT2, is from an engine that has the same block and internals that my Turbo has. Porsche does not engineer these cars to fail at 1% over the claimed factory power number, so I believe my stock Turbo engine can safely produce horsepower somewhere in the 500's. I'm guessing that the 997 Turbo will have the same engine I do, and the 997 will probably produce close to 500 hp. If there *is* a problem with my engine or transmission sometime down the road and the car is still under warranty, then I believe my dealer will take care of me. If the car is out of warranty, or the dealer balks on the repair, then I'll just pay for the work to be done. Is the money a big deal? Not really, but not for the reason some might expect. I love this particular car, and I have no intention of *ever* getting rid of it. The slush fund I keep for "the next sports car" (997 or 998 Turbo) isn't going to get spent on "the next sports car" (the 997 or 998 Turbo) and is therefore available for repairs on this Turbo if the case arises.

I use the power I have now all of the time (and not on the track), and enjoy it very much. As for performance vehicles "slowing down" over time...that *is* generally the case, and we all have to deal with that in one way or another. My answer right now is that my GIAC Stage 2 Turbo will fit the bill for quite a long time.

Zippy

Nicely said Dock.