Not sure what to thnk of this statement, In about 12 years I have never read any article stating (or providing proof) the tip was more stout than the manual when it comes to holding power. Consensus is around 600-700HP at the crank for a stock tip, and there are plenty of stock manuals holding the same power with an upraded clutch. Where are you getting this information?

Anything above that, the torque converter in the stock tip should be upgraded? Or at least it should be seriously considered.

 

Some info here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merced...c_transmission

Also contact the Porsche tuner Ruf in Germany. They will tell you all about the power these transmissions can handle. They were so concern with the durability of the 996TT manual trans they would not tune their builds past ~550HP/TQ, with a Tip they would go to ~650HP/TQ. If a customer wanted more power with a manual Ruf would require them to upgrade the trans to a straightcut gear Getrag racing box, but they also warned those customers of the NVH inherit in those transmissions. They also did upgrades to the Tip in which it could handle ~1000HP/TQ.

More:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruf_RTurbo

http://www.superturbodiesel.com/std/...d.php?tid=6298

https://www.benzworld.org/threads/72...ssion.1588777/

https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...-ruf-rt12.html

 

I think I should clarify what the numbers I’m quoting actually mean so there are no misunderstandings.

I’m not saying if you put 600+ horsepower through a stock 996TT manual trans it blows up immediately.

What I am saying is that the service life of that transmission decreases dramatically once you get above what most consider to be the longevity threshold of ~550 hp/torque.

The same goes for the Tiptronic. If you start putting ~650hp and torque through that thing it is probably not going to last as long as it normally would.

 

I glanced at all of those links, I didn't see anything stating the TIP could hold more power than a MANUAL, maybe I missed it. Interesting, thanks for sharing.

 

The same auto trans is also used in the R230 SL65 AMG with 604hp, 740tq stock. People tune those to around 670hp and 840 torque with no issues or upgrades.

 

Good inputs. So it sounds like under higher horsepower engines, either transmission will start to have increased wear. I will keep that in mind and be sure to service whichever transmission I have more often. Not just ignore it.

Thanks much,
Steve

 

The 996 TT transmissions are not as robust as we are led to believe. Porsche was aware, but I've never owned another manual car that needed a manual transmission rebuild, much less at 50k miles. And I'm far from the only one. It's well documented. Not that it's a bad thing; but it is expensive. I wouldn't presume (as I did) that the manual trans is "more reliable and robust" than a tip. They're both good, but honestly I would look for a manual that has a cooler and pump installed, along with an LSD if I were to buy another. Or make sure it was bought well enough to pay for an $20k trans/cooler/lsd/clutch.

 

Can you expand your comments on the LSD, if you don't mind. You mean Limited Slip Differential, correct?

Thanks,
Stevs

 

Yes, LSD = Limited Slip Differential. All this focus on how much power each trans can manage is rather off the point. The Tip is fine for a DE car if you are not chasing the tenths of a second to make an ultimate lap time. To just go out, drive fast, have fun, and learn more about car control it's just as good as the manual gearbox. After a driver's skill increases to a point where the Tip is a limiting factor there will be many other areas of the car the need to be addressed.

 

OK, thanks for that explanation.

Steve

 

I think the tiptronic loses points for me in the 'fun to drive in the canyons' metric but it can still be excellent on the track. Part of it depends on what you want to get out of your DE events... Obviously driving a tip isn't going to have you mastering heel and toe, but likely will allow you to focus a bit more on the line, trail braking, etc.

The PDK transmission is a masterpiece, but the tiptronic was an extremely solid true automatic (with a torque converter, not automated clutch) and your right, the price advantage makes it worth considering.

You can also graft on some proper shift paddles to make manually shifting it a bit more rewarding. OE AMG paddles are frequently used. Photo below is on a 987S I converted, not a 996, but the same technique can be used to convert the 996 Turbo.





https://rennlist.com/forums/987-foru...onversion.html

 

Thanks pfbz. I didn't know you could add paddle shifters.

Steve