IMS drive gear spun on the hub?

 

That is the theory the garage is working on briefly broke loose (but never mentioned rods yet). Not sure how it could skip again though after timing once again.

If was running fine prior to going into the shop, I know that.

Dont buy into that, they had the car for 12 months for the gearbox they want to finish this job and move on.

 

So this is something I am worried about, as I dont know how to validate that its just on trust. I asked them questions and they seemed confident. The builder has not done a turbo engine before but has done a 996 GT3 RSR (racecar)

Your re-read is correct. So will list the sequence so it easier to understand, but basically they replace the tappets when the 1st out of time occurred. Now the car has same errors and the engine is sat in the car with assumed same fault.

1. Car looses ability to de-activate clutch, engine still runs as normal no stall of engine when issue occurred. Shop go to replaced clutch and gearbox damaged
2. Reinstall rebuilt gearbox and start engine, notice that has code for camshaft timing P0011 & P1340
3. Engine pulled and camshaft noted to be out of time.
4. Pull the heads to inspect for any damage and replace any worn parts (tappets as called out), retime / reinstall.
5. Reinstall engine run, engine leaking no reports of errors issues, engine pulled to reseal
6. Reinstall engine again, run 4 time fine, 5th time engine makes a noise and then the car runs badly and reportedly same error codes appear.
7. Nothing further, engine remains installed in car with assumed jumped timing again and they want to strip down oh drop the job.

Over rev has been mentioned think they said 10 hours ago. They did not expand on that too much, possible I recall running into the rev limiter once then upshifting when initially purchased. No over reving on downshift which is where I believe you can do damage.

 

It took them 12 months to deal with the gearbox?

It might not be bad idea to get the car to a different shop.

 

Its only the intake cam, which makes me believe its not that.

 

ah misread, thought he/the shop said whole bank 2 timing was shifted

 

I'm not an internal engine expert on a Porsche... but all of this smells fishy - like 3 week old fishy....

Clutch and gearbox, sure. Normal. Cam timing issues immediately following.... seems almost *tooo* coincidental to me....

But I'll let the guru's walk you through this one. and listen and learn.

 

Leaving this here but the thought process doesn't apply here in terms of setup incorrectly by the shop, as that was prior to engine changes. Leaving here incase I can learn something anyway.

___________

So its only the intake thats out, could it be the variocam is faulty or set wrong?

According to this video you turn the variocam to maximum travel anticlockwise then lock it up.


Looking at another technical demonstration video that will only allow the engine management to then turn the cam clockwise - as that is the opposite direction.

My Intake Cam is currently too far anticlockwise so the variocam should not be able to achieve that assuming setup correctly. However is it also possible to set the variocam all the way to the clockwise incorrectly and tighten or would that be caught during timing checks?

Saying that it does not explain the initial out of time reason still. As they only set the timing once so scrap this thought process!

 

All this being said, it still does not explain why, if running fine before the failure, it is not now.

Although slightly different, I once blew the planetary out of a 5R110 Ford gearbox; in fact, I split it in two - it was a loud and catastrophic failure. The box was toast, and the shock from the failure went two ways - forward, into the engine, buggered the rear main seal, and backwards into the rear diff, where the yoke was pulled out from the diff and held together with only an inch or so of the spline into the axle receiver.

This failure happened as I had just come down a hill and was going into the next rise, boost came on to around 20lbs, and the box had just shifted down, so load was up to, if not more than about 75%. Vehicle weight is a little more than 9500lbs. The TC was locked, so this force had to go somewhere.

In your case, if we operate under the assumption that the clutch was engaged, it is reasonable to conclude that when your box failed, if everything bound, for even a fraction of a second, that at least some of this force (load) transferred into the engine - this would explain some of the broken bits, and could also explain why the timing is out - not so much from a broken timing chain, but perhaps from a stretched timing chain, as the engine did in fact run once the box was fixed.

You could also reasonably assume that the clutch, even though engaged, would slip at some point as the weight of the car, binding in the box/engine would at some point overcome the clamping abilities of the clutch, but as noted above, it will only take a fraction of a second with everything locking up to do some pretty spectacular damage.

As far as the conspiracy on the post fix test drive is concerned, I think that is less likely, although not impossible. Less likely because of the amount of damage (lifters/timing) but not impossible because there are idiots everywhere.

 

If the intake is out of time it surely could be the variocam. The process is to set the cams with the locking tool, install the variocam loosely, turn the variocam sprocket forward to the stop, tighten it all.
It's very easy to screw it up especially as the Porsche docs have the pictures in the wrong places.
It really SHOULD be caught if the work is properly inspected.
After the engine is built up to fit the cam timing plates in the cam needs to be turned forward to the stop.
There are other reasons for the variocam not to work properly. If the cam doesn't advance correctly the solenoids could be faulty or the sealing rings on the cam could be worn.

I guess I am confused as to what the shop did, what they suggested, and what they want to do now. Their responses show much confusion in their diagnosis and don't show a way forward.

 

I don't buy the theory that your clutch/gearbox issue damaged the engine in light of #1 above where you state the engine ran normally with no codes after the clutch failed. Your problem STARTED after they reinstalled the gearbox. My suspicion is a mechanic took the car out for a test drive after they reinstalled the gearbox/clutch and did a 5/2 $hift which damaged the lifters and whatever else tripping the cam timing codes. This is the beginning of the shiat show....

Have them plug in PIWIS/PST2 into your car and pull the ECU data with you watching and look at the total engine hours and the last RANGE 2 over rev data. That will tell the story. Don't let them tell you when the last over rev occurred, have the SHOW you...

Good luck...

 

How is that any different than potentially binding the drivetrain when the gearbox let go?

 

He said that after the gearbox/clutch issue happened, "engine still runs as normal no stall of engine when issue occurred". I've just never heard of a gearbox binding due to failed internals and damaging an engine as a result. Not to say that it couldn't happen but mis-shifts certainly granade engines with much greater frequency.

Regardless, I would start with verifying IF an over rev occurred or not. That's the path of least resistance and easiest thing to do. If that check out, proceed from there but I would likely take the engine to a competent shop for a full teardown/rebuild at this point.

 

That makes sense.

 

This is a very good suggestion. The broken lifters are definitely consistent with an over rev.