Steve in FL

Ghost Rider: I'd agree. Most of my track experience is with my 911T and I assure you it wasn't the horsepower that makes it a fun track car Sebring 04/95

johnfm

re gearing:

MM, don't forget that when you compare the speed in 2nd gear between 'normal' 911 and the GT3, that the GT3 pulls to 8200 rpm, so even with the same gearing it will be going significantly faster than the 'normal' 911.

flatair

mm208,

I think the point some people are trying to make is, if you want a *track car* that's driveable on the street, then get a GT3. It has a great engine and it's a great contributor to the total package, but the real deal is the handling capabilities of the car. I haven't heard you mention any extended experience with performance driving on a track, and I fear (and probably others too) that the GT3 might actually be too much car for a novice on a track - too much power, rear wheel drive, no PSM to save your butt. Trust me, lots of power gets you into lots of trouble when learning.

If you're not worried so much about track driving and want power and speed, get a turbo, it's a MUCH better car for the street. With the money you'd spend re-gearing the GT3, you'd be able to put that money into a turbo and still have a car that's faster than a re-geared GT3. Want something louder? New exhaust on a turbo makes them sound as beastly as you like. And if you screw up on a track day, this car will save your butt from going into a wall or flipping over a tire barrier. If you love straight line speed, that's wonderful, but please save the GT3 for someone who will use the car to it's fullest potential.

If you want a GT3 for exclusivity/collection, that's fantastic, but you shouldn't be worrying so much about the gearing - just keep the car original and have fun with it. Take it to the track and become a track junkie like the rest of us and *be careful* with it - you'll soon be taught that it's way more car than most of us need at the track (not to mention the street).

Good luck,

Brad

Ghost Rider

True Don, quite true....

I'm just not sure that mmm208 has caught on yet that we are actually trying to help him here, and that perhaps the advice of track veterans and porsche enthusiasts would be a good thing to heed before making a decision. Ultimately, it could be that neither the TT nor the GT3 is a good car for this guy, I'd hate to see him buy a Porsche and be disatisfied with it because he was really looking for something else.

I'm not trying to be elitist, but I agree with the other person who said leave the GT3 to the guys who will really appreciate it for what it is and get the most out of it, although I'm sure there would be several people lining up to buy mmm208's GT3 should he buy one and a month or two later decide it isn't right for him. My point is that to fully appreciate a car like the GT3 and remain safe at the same time if he's planning to track it or "drive fast" he needs to learn how to drive fast safely and he could learn in a lot of other cars first.

Perhaps I am overly cautious, but I went with a Boxster S first, drove that until I became "one" with the car (still miss that feeling) and tweaked it until any more tweaking was going to be serious change. Then I "graduated" up to a C4S, figuring I would re-learn how to drive fast and safe in a rear-engine car with all-wheel drive in anticipation of graduating up to a turbo or something else in the future. There's no rush, I'm willing to take me time to try to get to know each car and its nuances well before ever even worrying about what some gear change may or may not due for me. Frankly, I've driven a sprint car with a low and close gear range and after awhile it became a bit tedious to me to be shifting all the time, I found I was focusing more on my shifting than on my driving and not having as much fun, not that I'm arguing for a CVT or anything.

I guess my final recommendation at this point for mmm208 would be to take a pause, don't buy anything for a month, do some more research and reading and go to a DE event and talk to the people there, do a ride along, take his existing car, etc. etc. before making a decision.

The GT3 and the TT will both be there tomorrow, but if you are too hasty in your rush to drive fast.... you may not be....

chago996

There is a great article by the technical editor of Panorama (I think its the March '03 one) and he compares the torque curves of the 3.4L, 3.6L, 3.6L with Carrera Power Kit, and the GT3 engines. According to him and by the graph that he illustrates, the GT3 has about the same torque as the 3.4L engine below 5000 rpm. Above that and all the way to redline is a different story. What was very interesting to me was how the 3.6L engine had such a great torque curve which will make for a great everyday driveable car. The 3.6L engine with the Carrera power kit was also very impressive. It had the same low end torque of the 3.6L engine but with a max. engine hp output halfway between the 3.4L and the GT3. This all seems to support MM208 driving impressions of the GT3. I have not driven a Gt3 but it seems to be made for the track. In the street it will behave like a 3.4L which is not bad either. Mine is a '01 3.4L and when I was test-driving these cars I was torn between the 3.4L and the just released back then 3.6L. I could not tell the difference between the 2 in terms of torque and acceleration. But let me clarify that what I tested was a well broken in 3.4L coupe (model year 2000) with 20k and I compared it with a new (delivery miles) '02 3.6L cabrio with the aluminum hardtop sitting on top. So I really wasn't comparing apples to apples. Then I found a 3.4L 996 at another dealer and it was loaded the way I wanted and I got 10k dollars off MSRP. I left behind an E36 M3, and the 3.4L 996 impressed me enough to justify not paying more for the 3.6. The E36 M3 was hard to leave because it had impressive low end torque and driveability. The 3.4L 996 improved on that sensation. So maybe a 3.6L with Carrera Power Kit (lightly optioned to keep the costs down) is the way to go for MM208. It could be a lot less expensive than the GT3 or TT if you don't go crazy on the options. It might also be the new engine on the upcoming 997 according to some reports. My 2 cents.

RR

Thanks for your opinions,

but a torque curve graph, is not going to even begin to give the sensations of the GT3 vs the 3.4 or 3.6L.

I had a 3.4, and a 3.6.
The GT3 is tons better. It is much more fun to drive around town than the other 2 and at highway speeds it is not even a contest.

Close but no cigar.
Always the bridesmaid, never the bride.

Let me put it to you this way.

To me,

The GT3 is the car that the Boxster and the NA 996's are trying to emulate.
But if Porsche sold all there cars with 380HP and no TC or PSM, the soccer mom's would be putting them into the ditch like no tomorrow and the insurance for the vehicles would be ridiculously high.

The Boxster and the NA996 allows these people to "safely" enjoy and own a Porsche. Kind of like a roller coaster ride , fun but safe.

The GT3 is not for everyone.
As is the GT2.
Technology has allowed Porsche and many other manufactureres to expand their customer base - to the detriment of the hardcore members.

Thank god for cars like the GT3 and GT2, w/o them there would be no Porsche.

So if you aren't sure, I would stay away from the GT3, the Turbo has all the "safety devices" to keep anyone out of a ditch.
But you can have all the fun in the world, blowing the doors off IROCZ's and Vettes, from stop light to stop light.

9caregiver

Good points here. Even the Porsche engineers who worked on the GT3 project are the first to admit that it is not for everyone. They recommend a C4S for the "average " Porsche buyer? The GT3 for the driving purist. I have driven a tt on the racetrack and it is very easy to drive quickly both on and off line. The car does wonders to compensate for your mistakes and truthfully is too good to learn on. It gives one a sense they are a better driver than they really are. I have seen people go from a tt to two wheel drive race cars only to get into trouble with them. I think the lesser the car you have for the track the better of a driver you have to be to go fast. You can always progress to a better car.

I have been waiting for a car like the GT3 to come along and never thought it would happen. After some difficulties with the ordering process, I should have my car soon. It will share space with my 73 RS and 93 RSA. As much as I like a raw Porsche, they are not for everyone but who are we to say who should drive what. Some have to learn for themselves.

Best Always,

Don

Steve in FL

Rennman: Nice garage!

Greg Fishman

If any of you guys are interested my mechanic said he has a different R&P that will work in the GT3 and effectively shorten the gearing. Top speed goes to around 160mph but it will get there much quicker.

Send me an email or PM if you want his contact info.

mmm208

can anyone post what a normal 996 does in each gear.

flatair

mmm208

if geared correctly, i think it will beat a TT hands down.

then you have a great car that looks better than TT

handles flatter

more nimble

still trackable

and do 0-60 at under 4 seconds .

ZAMIRZ

mmm208, you must take the initiative yourself to search the world wide web for this kind of information. This isn't technical information, nor are you breaking new ground by asking this question. Please use search engines like google and yahoo to find the answer to your question, it's readily available on many sites out there.

silver996

who cares about 0-60? how often does anyone abuse their clutch at the red light? it's a nice performance yardstick to be aware of, but has no practical use in everyday (or, i assume, track) driving....