Better long term appreciation...GT3/GT2?
01-12-2015, 08:34 AM
#31
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Original question:
'Which do you think will be more desirable/collectable 10-20 years in the future? GT3 or GT2?'
desirability and values are two very different things...it always seems to end up down the route of how much they will be worth.
I can only answer from a 996 perspective as have a mk2 GT3 RHD.
I think both the GT3 and GT2 will both be very desirable and collectable to the people that want them and hanker after them. both in limited numbers and they are GT cars regardless with the Metzger engine and racing line heritage.
personally I am not a fan of blown porkers and I prefer the sound and feel of the NA GT cars. that is just me.
if you follow the 993 GT2 and RS market, then look at values and collectability there is no doubt the GT2 will be the one...and that is coming from a 996 GT3 owner.
the 993 GT2 was super rare and more of them than the RS. it has real racing heritage and was homologated (like the 996 GT3). not sure on the 996 GT2? in the 996 GT2 you have more models made than the 993 GT2 so I am not sure they will go the way of the 993 GT2. but who knows?
I know in the UK the GT2 and GT3 market for the 996 is really moving fast and will not stop.
I do know that the rarer club sport versions in the .2 and .3s will always be desired more and be more collectable as rarer and are always snapped up more quickly (regardless of the price)
both are GT cars and awesome in their own right so depends on what you want really. I know a few guys with GT2s in the UK and they are crackers fast and bonkers machines. end of.
just enjoy what you have got while you have it and can enjoy it.
adios from the other side of the pond. NW
'Which do you think will be more desirable/collectable 10-20 years in the future? GT3 or GT2?'
desirability and values are two very different things...it always seems to end up down the route of how much they will be worth.
I can only answer from a 996 perspective as have a mk2 GT3 RHD.
I think both the GT3 and GT2 will both be very desirable and collectable to the people that want them and hanker after them. both in limited numbers and they are GT cars regardless with the Metzger engine and racing line heritage.
personally I am not a fan of blown porkers and I prefer the sound and feel of the NA GT cars. that is just me.
if you follow the 993 GT2 and RS market, then look at values and collectability there is no doubt the GT2 will be the one...and that is coming from a 996 GT3 owner.
the 993 GT2 was super rare and more of them than the RS. it has real racing heritage and was homologated (like the 996 GT3). not sure on the 996 GT2? in the 996 GT2 you have more models made than the 993 GT2 so I am not sure they will go the way of the 993 GT2. but who knows?
I know in the UK the GT2 and GT3 market for the 996 is really moving fast and will not stop.
I do know that the rarer club sport versions in the .2 and .3s will always be desired more and be more collectable as rarer and are always snapped up more quickly (regardless of the price)
both are GT cars and awesome in their own right so depends on what you want really. I know a few guys with GT2s in the UK and they are crackers fast and bonkers machines. end of.
just enjoy what you have got while you have it and can enjoy it.
adios from the other side of the pond. NW
01-12-2015, 08:44 AM
#32
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have driven both a 6 GT3 and 6 GT3 RS on a few track days and round the ring many times. I have a 'normal' GT3 mk2 (with buckets, half cage, harnesses, uprated pads, RS rear wing and front bumper) suspension etc and mate has a standard 6 GT3 RS in white/blue so we swap around all the time.
picture of us at trackday:
the normal 3 is a much better road car. end of. the RS tram lines a lot more and more agitated on the road. mind you RS = Rennsport so no wonder its a lot more racy!
I have driven that RS for many hours across Europe and its not as nice a place to be as my normal gt3....especially when hot. suspension is a bit harder/harsher.
the RS is not at all quicker in a straight line in real terms (0.1 sec quicker I think to 60) but get it on track and when it all hooks up it starts to make sense.
quite a few differences when you tot them all up as it has the rear ram air duct, larger rear carbon spoiler for more down force, diff engine mapping and lighter engine parts such as flywheel so it picks up a bit quicker and has more power top end due to additional ducting and forced air in.
the rear window is plastic, carbon bonnet and few other trick bits to reduce a bit of weight.
different suspension mounts and pick up points etc just make the whole package that bit more lively and quicker.
Only 140 right hand drive GT3 RS cars were built by Porsche and 113 of those were officially imported into to the UK. The GT3 RS was not sold in USA or Canada. 30 of those are in white/blue so that colour combination is the rarest.
when on track together my cars has semi slicks and my mate is only Michelin PS2 road tyres so they are evenly matched because I have better tyres (if not a bit quicker). on the same tyres the RS is just a little bit more nimble than the normal 3, has better turn in and managed the weight transfer through corners that bit better due to less weight.
we are talking very small margins here though people. I just feel honoured to have driven one at Spa, the ring and some of the great circuits in Europe.
oh yeah the RS does not have air con in that example and you sweat like a frigging pig come the summer at the ring ;-) the nomex seats seems to soak it up nicely. yuk!!
I do just love that RS and wish I had got one 2 years ago when they were £55k...they are double that now!! ;-(
picture of us at trackday:
the normal 3 is a much better road car. end of. the RS tram lines a lot more and more agitated on the road. mind you RS = Rennsport so no wonder its a lot more racy!
I have driven that RS for many hours across Europe and its not as nice a place to be as my normal gt3....especially when hot. suspension is a bit harder/harsher.
the RS is not at all quicker in a straight line in real terms (0.1 sec quicker I think to 60) but get it on track and when it all hooks up it starts to make sense.
quite a few differences when you tot them all up as it has the rear ram air duct, larger rear carbon spoiler for more down force, diff engine mapping and lighter engine parts such as flywheel so it picks up a bit quicker and has more power top end due to additional ducting and forced air in.
the rear window is plastic, carbon bonnet and few other trick bits to reduce a bit of weight.
different suspension mounts and pick up points etc just make the whole package that bit more lively and quicker.
Only 140 right hand drive GT3 RS cars were built by Porsche and 113 of those were officially imported into to the UK. The GT3 RS was not sold in USA or Canada. 30 of those are in white/blue so that colour combination is the rarest.
when on track together my cars has semi slicks and my mate is only Michelin PS2 road tyres so they are evenly matched because I have better tyres (if not a bit quicker). on the same tyres the RS is just a little bit more nimble than the normal 3, has better turn in and managed the weight transfer through corners that bit better due to less weight.
we are talking very small margins here though people. I just feel honoured to have driven one at Spa, the ring and some of the great circuits in Europe.
oh yeah the RS does not have air con in that example and you sweat like a frigging pig come the summer at the ring ;-) the nomex seats seems to soak it up nicely. yuk!!
I do just love that RS and wish I had got one 2 years ago when they were £55k...they are double that now!! ;-(
01-12-2015, 12:24 PM
#33
Thank you Das Chin for your impressions and input. Quite illuminating! The AC in the standard 6-3 is a huge bonus! I would not want to spend too much time in an AC delete car during hot summer months. You are indeed fortunate to have a buddy with an RS to enjoy on those amazing European tracks. Sweeeeet! Is there a source for real "worldwide" production numbers for all the 996 GT3 Variants to include both MK 1 & 2 and all RS's too? It would be wonderful to understand the real numbers.
These cars are truly the last of the breed and along with the 73RS and the 92RS might well be considered the pinnacle of what Porsche created in terms of the "pure" driving experience!
These cars are truly the last of the breed and along with the 73RS and the 92RS might well be considered the pinnacle of what Porsche created in terms of the "pure" driving experience!
01-12-2015, 12:35 PM
#34
Thank you Das Chin for your impressions and input. Quite illuminating! The AC in the standard 6-3 is a huge bonus! I would not want to spend too much time in an AC delete car during hot summer months. You are indeed fortunate to have a buddy with an RS to enjoy on those amazing European tracks. Sweeeeet! Is there a source for real "worldwide" production numbers for all the 996 GT3 Variants to include both MK 1 & 2 and all RS's too? It would be wonderful to understand the real numbers. These cars are truly the last of the breed and along with the 73RS and the 92RS might well be considered the pinnacle of what Porsche created in terms of the "pure" driving experience!
01-12-2015, 01:19 PM
#35
Total production numbers
MK1 - MY2000 1360 + MY2001 508
MK2 - MY2003 781 + MY2004 1532 + MY2005 1
RS - MY2003 4 + MY2004 678 + MY2005 2
Cup - MY2002 138 + MY2003 200 + MY2004 150 + MY2005 35
Total excluding Cup cars = 4866
01-12-2015, 01:57 PM
#36
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those numbers from Ade sound about right. I normally use the same means for details and data.
my mate did nearly sell the RS a few years ago for a 997 Turbo but I managed to show him what a big mistake that would have been. the RS has doubled in price in 12 months and a much more pure driving experience. 997 TT is a great car and GT but it will never be an RS. I think (and hope) he will never sell the 996 RS now. its a real keeper and its just stunning.
I think some of the last 997 mk2 RS and the 4.0 L will be future classics too. unreal cars and so much pace.
there is an old saying:
if it appreciates then buy it. if it depreciates then lease it (that is what I used for the 997 turbo!)
my mate did nearly sell the RS a few years ago for a 997 Turbo but I managed to show him what a big mistake that would have been. the RS has doubled in price in 12 months and a much more pure driving experience. 997 TT is a great car and GT but it will never be an RS. I think (and hope) he will never sell the 996 RS now. its a real keeper and its just stunning.
I think some of the last 997 mk2 RS and the 4.0 L will be future classics too. unreal cars and so much pace.
there is an old saying:
if it appreciates then buy it. if it depreciates then lease it (that is what I used for the 997 turbo!)
01-12-2015, 10:56 PM
#37
Thanks for the production numbers. I assume this includes NA delivered cars too. The MK II 2005 number cannot be correct. There were more than 1.......I believe more like 175 or so....
01-12-2015, 11:07 PM
#38
some additional #'s
01-12-2015, 11:42 PM
#40
01-13-2015, 01:01 AM
#42
Das Chin,
That's a great write up
You're a very lucky bloke to have driven it where you have! And that colour is the one I'd have.... I don't even know if OF the 17 RS here in AU, if any are white/blue I've only ever seen white/red.
Your comments about A/C are valid... I was out in 40*c + (104*f + for my US friends) weather the other day... man it was nice to turn on, I don't care what the weight penalty is!
That's a great write up
You're a very lucky bloke to have driven it where you have! And that colour is the one I'd have.... I don't even know if OF the 17 RS here in AU, if any are white/blue I've only ever seen white/red.Your comments about A/C are valid... I was out in 40*c + (104*f + for my US friends) weather the other day... man it was nice to turn on, I don't care what the weight penalty is!
01-13-2015, 03:33 AM
#43
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nice pic edgy. got to love those beach backgrounds from aus. mate of mine has moved over there and that is all he sends over to us on FB when in rainy/cold England!! can't imagine how hot 40c is and in a car....like slow cooking in an oven!
I think I have seen more of the white/blue combo RS than I have the white red oddly. I know petrol ted (Dave) who set up pistonheads bought a white red RS when he sold it to haymarket so that is the only other one I see/know of! I think the yellow PCCBs look right on the white blue ones. Red calipers on the white red combo (personal taste again)
sadly the rarity, collectable and value aspect of the RS (and even the normal GT3s) is having an impact on how many you see and where you see them. back in 2004 to 2008 when I was a regular at the nurburgring it was a staple diet of 996 GT3 RS and BMW m3 CSL (had 2 of those and another great car and so balanced/capable - well peddled one on a par with the GT3 at the ring too!)
but as time has gone on, some have been binned/stolen/lost forever, values have shot up so now you see less and less of them sadly. even the 997 RS have shot up in value so you see less of those. I have a real soft spot for the 997 GT3 RS in viper green....they have gone crazy over here and REALLY sought after. I think there were only 10 RHD ones made!
991 GT3s are more common stock at the ring as are the v8 M3s, the new M4s etc plus you always see modded Turbos and the odd GT2. loads of local rapid BMs, VWs and all sorts of crazy stuff.
a very well known Porsche enthusiast over here, former racing driver and all round top bloke said to me once.....if you have a GT or an RS Porsche of any kind then hang onto it as they are super desirable and collectable.
he has had his 73 RS since new when he bought it...go figure!
I think I have seen more of the white/blue combo RS than I have the white red oddly. I know petrol ted (Dave) who set up pistonheads bought a white red RS when he sold it to haymarket so that is the only other one I see/know of! I think the yellow PCCBs look right on the white blue ones. Red calipers on the white red combo (personal taste again)
sadly the rarity, collectable and value aspect of the RS (and even the normal GT3s) is having an impact on how many you see and where you see them. back in 2004 to 2008 when I was a regular at the nurburgring it was a staple diet of 996 GT3 RS and BMW m3 CSL (had 2 of those and another great car and so balanced/capable - well peddled one on a par with the GT3 at the ring too!)
but as time has gone on, some have been binned/stolen/lost forever, values have shot up so now you see less and less of them sadly. even the 997 RS have shot up in value so you see less of those. I have a real soft spot for the 997 GT3 RS in viper green....they have gone crazy over here and REALLY sought after. I think there were only 10 RHD ones made!
991 GT3s are more common stock at the ring as are the v8 M3s, the new M4s etc plus you always see modded Turbos and the odd GT2. loads of local rapid BMs, VWs and all sorts of crazy stuff.
a very well known Porsche enthusiast over here, former racing driver and all round top bloke said to me once.....if you have a GT or an RS Porsche of any kind then hang onto it as they are super desirable and collectable.
he has had his 73 RS since new when he bought it...go figure!
01-13-2015, 07:16 AM
#44
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stunning mate.
Das Chin, I love your car mate, aesthetically yours is exactly how I want mine to end up although mine is black, I wanted a GR car but you never see them
.
Can certainly vouch for how bad no A/C is...mine has been deleted. Black GT3, no A/C on Australian summer's day = FAIL. Weighs about 12-13kg all up.
Das Chin, I love your car mate, aesthetically yours is exactly how I want mine to end up although mine is black, I wanted a GR car but you never see them
. Can certainly vouch for how bad no A/C is...mine has been deleted. Black GT3, no A/C on Australian summer's day = FAIL. Weighs about 12-13kg all up.
01-13-2015, 08:55 AM
#45
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ooh black car with no AC. oh well good reason to have windows down and hear that Metzger singing!!
tbh I am thinking of losing the decals down the side of mine and put it back OEM - all guards red.
only the RS should really have the decals in my eyes.
will keep the RS front bumper and rear spoiler but do mirrors GR too. just a bit more simple.
interior wise I have changed it around a bit as was fed up with Darth vader bedroom ;-) console in GR, RS alcantara wheel and RS gear stick with red stitching:
tbh I am thinking of losing the decals down the side of mine and put it back OEM - all guards red.
only the RS should really have the decals in my eyes.
will keep the RS front bumper and rear spoiler but do mirrors GR too. just a bit more simple.
interior wise I have changed it around a bit as was fed up with Darth vader bedroom ;-) console in GR, RS alcantara wheel and RS gear stick with red stitching:
