Q&A

That's the question ......

Started 1 year ago as a complete rookie. Dreamed of it as a kid and never stopped dreaming but never had the real money until recent.
Managed to get almost 20 track days this year and also got my official FIA racing license and competed in 2 official races this year.
What a thrill that was !!! so, i am C O M P L E T E L Y Hooked, and now with the winter stop, .. there is (maybe too much) time to contemplate ..........

Should i keep the (slightly modded) road registered 996 GT3 or go for a 996 Cup car ?

Safety is one reason:
Cup is the safest way to seriously move around a track and with my (only) half Tequipment roll bar i sometimes feel like driving without my 6 point Schroths'. Improved Speed, Handling and excitement are the other reason and ... not necessarily mentioned as 2nd priority ;-)

Would Def. NOT race the Cup (next year) in real races, but use it to learn at track days ONLY.
Estimate maybe 25 hours total running time for 2012 (around 10 - 15 track days)
Just trying to become a better driver and enjoy doing that more then with an almost standard GT3.

There are some very nice 2004, 2005 Cup cars on the market even with fresh sequential Hollingers installed for prices less then my road legal car would go for.
< 50K euro

This year i did about 20 track days and have not used my GT3 for anything else other then to drive to/from the track and therefore also limited to not being able to run slicks all the time. Improved my laptimes every time and got hooked to riding those slicks when i had the chance.

Took my mandatory additional driving exam for pulling a trailer ...... guess i saw something coming ;-)

But ...... I am very scared of the high running costs of a cup car. Been reading and got very excited, scared and excited and scared and ......
I am estimating roughly 20.000 euro for engine and gearbox revisions alone, after each season or season and 1/2 (30 to 40 hrs)
Is this way off, or spot on. This comes in addition to tires, brakes and oil etc etc etc. I think these expandable's should be roughly the same as with a standard 996 GT3 used with the same amount of hours at a track, so those costs are not to be weight but mandatory, regardless of a GT3 or Cup or do i miss an important extra cost here ?

So i am eyeballing, and thinking and calculating, and eyeballing and thinking and ........
I find myself in a candy store with a a hand full of (just enough) money but do i know what i am getting in too ?

Or just stick to my current car for 2012 and improve, learn and take more lessons with this one:
http://www.youtube.com/user/ParadisePorsche

.

JohnPG

Q&A,

I've had similar thoughts. Funny what winter can do to you. Cup drive train refresh costs seem a high price for what I'd be doing with the car which is essentially DE's and open track days. I don't see my self getting into racing. For the most part I only use the car on the track. Safety is a huge factor and the Cup would be safer. The expense of stripping a GT3 car, installing a cage and upgrading the suspension would be more than the cost of an 04/05 cup. But then you've got maintenance factor to consider with the Cup. However, if you could sell the cup drive train when it needed a rework and installed a GT3 drive train in the Cup with an upgraded diff and flywheel. You'd have a pretty good package. Just a thought. Wonder if anybody has done this?

996FLT6

Are u keeping street 6 and buying cup or it's this or that? The car I own I plan to keep a longtime til I nail it in the wall. I came to the bubble I want to just want to have fun and be safe doing de's(the real fun is hanging out with the usual suspects) some races(establish new friends- to get a cup to run de's seems a waste). I can run rcomps for de's and slicks for race. U got best of both worlds but if your car is a creampuff sell it and get a cupcar if u only get one. Mike

aussie jimmy

running a cup at de can be very frustrating in traffic, unless they run a racecar group.
you also need crew and infrastructure to help you with things.

Mike K.

If you won't be racing stick with the street gt3. If you have to, build a small tire trailer for extra wheels and tools. Spend a few Euros on getting rid of the rubber in the suspension, revalve shocks, change springs and you will be able to enjoy the slicks and still drive to the track. Much cheaper and more people to play with until you want to go racing. P.S. what happened with your shifting issue?

Q&A

He Mike. Shifting issue is still 'under investigation' by my local dealer since i claimed it under the extended warranty. Should hear more end of this week

KOAN

If you cannot comfortably afford to spend 2x your anticipated costs for the cup car, then reconsider. I am always optimistic about expected running costs. Unexpected repairs should be expected.
As an aside, I think it is very difficult to learn to drive well in a high strung, fast car. You may want to consider investing some time in a momentum car to hone your skills.

spare tire

Learning the limits at a lower speed and the occational mistake that IS going to happen dictates more experience without all the extra horsepower of a cup. Pushing a slower momentum car to the limit and keeping it there (at it's limit) is a lot of fun. A little mistake at Miata speed or F or G class will hurt a little in the walet. The same error in a cup with all the speed it delivers will hurt a lot.
I started flying a Cesna for a year and am progressing nicely. For next year I am thinking about a twin engine Gulfstream. Do you want to ride with me?

Mike K.

buying a refreshed cup car box and running that for a year. When you are done put the stock back in and sell the cup separately. Even with a refresh at the end the end of the year you won't be out of pocket for much.
Just out of curiosity ( my family is from Amsterdam and I've spent a bit of time there) where the heck are you going to park a 20ft trailer?

Q&A

Thanks guys for all the input. Still contemplating and thinking and contemplating.
Mike, parking is indeed a p.i.t.a in the city centre so i rented some extra space outside.

FFaust

Winter's a bitch, isn't it

It's obvious that you've got cup on the brain, so go for it. You need to get it out of your system, and that is the only way.

It's safer, it's more re-buildable, it's more raw, it's more exciting. If you have an off and damage the car, you won't destroy value as much as if you do the same thing in a street car.

Modifying your street car will cost lots of $$$ The cup is already track-prepped.

If you are not racing, there's no reason to run at 10/10, so wear and tear, and therefore costs, will be less.

Your main consideration should be logistics: Can you handle needing a trailer in Europe? Sorry if it sounds silly, but I am not familiar with your circumstances. The other consideration would be how a cup will fit in with your run groups or track days.

Bottom line is, if you can, you should.

Of course, I don't have a cup, so I probably don't know what I'm talking about. But that's my opinion, and I'm sticking to it.

Good luck

koenig_roland

here is a german-road-legal Cup for sale.
The former owner drives now an 993 GT2 on track.

Rob S

I think it is somewhat of a fallacy that a cup car carries operating expenses that are greater than that of the street car for the same operating conditions. This has been debated frequently on this and other forums; you may want to do a search. The cup running gear is so similar (and the engine is simpler, actually, because it doesn't have variable valve timing) that there aren't expenses that should be higher. Other expendables (brakes, tires, fluids) should be very similar in cost for equivalent performance (especially if you run slicks on your street car). And as was pointed out above, if you damage the cup car, it will hurt the value of the car much less than a street car, so in some senses, the risk to your investment is lower with a race car.

What's scary is the people who track their "street" cars as hard as pro-driven race car and assume that because it's not a race car that it is cheaper to maintain. If you put 60-100 race-like hours on your street engine, it will need a refresh every bit as much as a race engine under those conditions. There's nothing magically stronger or better about a street engine that gives it greater longevity.

This is all another way of saying: I wouldn't let the cup vs. street operating expense argument be a big factor in your decision. If you run them equivalently hard, maintenance should be equivalently costly. But in reality most amateur lapping day events (and drivers) are not as hard on their cars as professional racers, so the time schedule for maintenance of a cup car under less taxing conditions would be extended and the costs would not necessarily be as high as under full-race conditions.

FFaust

And I guess that if a cup car is 3, 4, 500lbs lighter than a similar street-legal car, wear items such as brakes and tires should last longer.

What's not to like.

Rob S

I agree. Some costs might actually be lower due to lower weight in the cup, and others might be higher for some other reason. But to say that there's a huge difference in the per-hour operation is not true if the cars are driven in the same fashion and on equivalent tires. So, if I were making the decision between a cup and a modified street car, I'd be looking at other factors, including the safety of the cup and its true race-ability and feel versus its inability to be driven on the street and its limited market as a race car.