LWFW dilemma
09-18-2011, 01:31 PM
#16
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After reading many of the LWFW posts on this website I looked into upgrading to a LWFW when I have my rapidly failing clutch replaced. I have an '04 GT3 with 21,000 miles and it is still under a Porsche certified warranty. I drive it about 50:50 on the road and track (AX, DE, TT). I checked with 2 local Porsche dealers and got the following responses:
#1: $3500 for GT3 clutch + $900 for RS LWFW and associated parts. No problem with my Porsche warranty and no expectations that it would be deleterious to the drivetrain.
#2: $4000 for GT3 clutch. They will not install a LWFW because of a Porsche Tech bulletin stating that LWFW should not be installed on 7.GT3s. He told me they are also interpreting that to be the same for 6.GT3 since it is the same clutch and RS 6.GT3s were not produced at the time therefore they were not included in the tech bulletin. They refuse to install the LWFW and would not cover the car under warranty if it was installed by anyone else and the drivetrain failed. They pointed out the possibility of a crankshaft failure with LWFW and said the car was not designed for this flywheel.
Obviously I should go with Dealer #1 if I really want a LWFW, but if something happens later to the drivetrain, or even the engine, are they going to come back and say it's not covered under warranty due to the Tech Bulletin despite what they verbally told me?
Is a LWFW really worth installing due to potential drivetrain failure and lack of warranty coverage? I hear they really make the car feel more lively but is it really going to be much of a performance upgrade for the track?
Also, is this the usual GT3 clutch replacement price? I recently had the clutch on my '03 911 cab daily driver replaced for half that cost!
#1: $3500 for GT3 clutch + $900 for RS LWFW and associated parts. No problem with my Porsche warranty and no expectations that it would be deleterious to the drivetrain.
#2: $4000 for GT3 clutch. They will not install a LWFW because of a Porsche Tech bulletin stating that LWFW should not be installed on 7.GT3s. He told me they are also interpreting that to be the same for 6.GT3 since it is the same clutch and RS 6.GT3s were not produced at the time therefore they were not included in the tech bulletin. They refuse to install the LWFW and would not cover the car under warranty if it was installed by anyone else and the drivetrain failed. They pointed out the possibility of a crankshaft failure with LWFW and said the car was not designed for this flywheel.
Obviously I should go with Dealer #1 if I really want a LWFW, but if something happens later to the drivetrain, or even the engine, are they going to come back and say it's not covered under warranty due to the Tech Bulletin despite what they verbally told me?
Is a LWFW really worth installing due to potential drivetrain failure and lack of warranty coverage? I hear they really make the car feel more lively but is it really going to be much of a performance upgrade for the track?
Also, is this the usual GT3 clutch replacement price? I recently had the clutch on my '03 911 cab daily driver replaced for half that cost!
You need to drive my car; the original flywheel is like a 25lb weight and it totally screws up the mojo of this motor, which sings with the LWFW. I'm not an engineer but it would seem that the LWFW is easier on the drive train. Interestingly, the car behaves much better on the street in stop and go: I drive mine 100 miles per day. However, it does sound like a washing machine loaded with beer cans at idle. Mine has been in for 25.000 or so miles with cup cables for the last 15,000. Mark Kinninger at Black Forest is your man. LWFW with clutch was about 2,500 Doug
09-18-2011, 08:57 PM
#18
Nordschleife Master
09-18-2011, 10:21 PM
#20
Nordschleife Master
that is the result of not having the rubber bushings between the twin discs. Basically the rattles are there either way, it just makes it to you with the LWFW.
09-24-2011, 11:57 AM
#25
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Thanks for all the advice! Sorry I have not replied in awhile--I just got back from a business trip in Germany. Between business meetings I rented a 2011 911 4S Cab with PDK for 3 days and put about 600 miles on it on the autobahn (at 150+mph!) and backroads as well as several laps on the Nordschleife Nurburgring. Absolutely awesome!
Anyway, since I wrote this first post, I took the car into dealer #1 for a service check and they spotted a small oil leak in the head gasket at the base of the engine. They offered to fix it under the warranty and at the same time could replace the clutch and upgrade me to a LWFW for basically the cost of the parts since they will have everything apart anyway. After I got home from the dealer, i checked the underside and sure enough, there was seepage from the gasket and a few drops of oil on my driveway, the first ever from any of my Porsches.
Are these types of oil leaks common on these cars? I have not read much about them before.
Anyway, since I wrote this first post, I took the car into dealer #1 for a service check and they spotted a small oil leak in the head gasket at the base of the engine. They offered to fix it under the warranty and at the same time could replace the clutch and upgrade me to a LWFW for basically the cost of the parts since they will have everything apart anyway. After I got home from the dealer, i checked the underside and sure enough, there was seepage from the gasket and a few drops of oil on my driveway, the first ever from any of my Porsches.
Are these types of oil leaks common on these cars? I have not read much about them before.
09-24-2011, 12:15 PM
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Craig,
You need to drive my car; the original flywheel is like a 25lb weight and it totally screws up the mojo of this motor, which sings with the LWFW. I'm not an engineer but it would seem that the LWFW is easier on the drive train. Interestingly, the car behaves much better on the street in stop and go: I drive mine 100 miles per day. However, it does sound like a washing machine loaded with beer cans at idle. Mine has been in for 25.000 or so miles with cup cables for the last 15,000. Mark Kinninger at Black Forest is your man. LWFW with clutch was about 2,500 Doug
You need to drive my car; the original flywheel is like a 25lb weight and it totally screws up the mojo of this motor, which sings with the LWFW. I'm not an engineer but it would seem that the LWFW is easier on the drive train. Interestingly, the car behaves much better on the street in stop and go: I drive mine 100 miles per day. However, it does sound like a washing machine loaded with beer cans at idle. Mine has been in for 25.000 or so miles with cup cables for the last 15,000. Mark Kinninger at Black Forest is your man. LWFW with clutch was about 2,500 Doug
Craig
09-25-2011, 04:32 PM
#27
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09-29-2011, 08:58 PM
#28
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Maybe a bit off topic but i would like to ask some advice on the LWFW matter
I am about to get mine done, and would need to order the kit tomorrow.
In the link below you can see my options, and i was thinking of the FVD 116 913 1
the one with the 'normal' GT3 Sachs clutch plate (4th kit from above)
But there is also the option with the Sinter disc (3rd from above). Is this too extreme if you hit a traffic jam every now and then going to and from the track ? What are the pro and con's on these sinters. Any word on this before i order ?
And ........ what else do i need to order doing this, or are these kits all i need
http://shop.fvd.de/de/en/Porsche-0/9...Cluch_Kit.html
I am about to get mine done, and would need to order the kit tomorrow.
In the link below you can see my options, and i was thinking of the FVD 116 913 1
the one with the 'normal' GT3 Sachs clutch plate (4th kit from above)
But there is also the option with the Sinter disc (3rd from above). Is this too extreme if you hit a traffic jam every now and then going to and from the track ? What are the pro and con's on these sinters. Any word on this before i order ?
And ........ what else do i need to order doing this, or are these kits all i need
http://shop.fvd.de/de/en/Porsche-0/9...Cluch_Kit.html
09-29-2011, 09:48 PM
#29
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I would not buy the sintered disc(puck type) for street at all. It's an on/off switch. U have to be deliberate with releasing clutch pedal- u cannot nanny into 1st gear and if u do nasty sounding wap wap noise ie sounds like tranny would explode. Mike