Fooshe

911slow,

You are somewhat correct in that it is an insurance issue, but moreover, it is a public perception issue. I am trying to gage what the GT3 buyers on Rennlist have to say as to how they would feel about buying a GT3 with the prior damage I noted. I have seen these claims before and I am taking a grassroots poll to see what the results are. It is being used as a point of reference from a group of enthusiasts. I am merely an insurance agent and want to be able to speak about this with another point of view besides my own.

Interesting that you say "statistical data gathered from here cannot be used in any formal way." Why is that? From what I remember in statistics class, all information is data, the question is more if the data is qualified or not. Since Rennlisters are buyers as much as anyone else, I think their point of view is relevant.

996FLT6

And when ^all that stuff was lying on the floor- 1st thing came on my mind- JUNK!!! : ). Mike

Fooshe

Thanks for your input. More simply put, unibody damage on a GT3 would be any time the body is damaged since these are unibody cars. That's why I used this scenario. If the 1/4 panel is cut out and replaced by a new one that is welded back in place, that is clearly unibody damage. Just by definition, the car has been structurally compromised and can never be returned to the way it was when originally mfg'd.

What I am gaging is exactly what you expressed, where is your threshold for buying that car if presented to you. Hense, the issue of diminuation of value.

tcsracing1

Once a car has damage history, the resale for ever and a day is affected.

No matter how good or small the repair, it is still something that will cause the resale to drop 15-20% compared to no hit cars.
The percentage of discount escalates depending on the extent of the damages.

Buyers want "perfect" cars.

Either it be just a simple replacement bumper or a full quarter panel job. Repair history kills resale.
The 15-20% discount is now the only incentive to attract buyers to purchase the repaired car.

The car can be perfect again, but it is a buyers market, and with direct competition of no hit cars it is a tough sale to people who will always question the degree of damage and level of repair.
Worst case scenario the discount could be even higher......
Cars that have suffered major damage will be fire sale after repairs. To the point of not saving. (i.e, rolled cars)

As long as the car has not suffered tub damage, deployed air bags or alignment issues it will still have a place in the market and make a great car for a thrifty street buyer or would be track car buyer.

It can pose a tough sale for the seller, but a great opportunity for a buyer to save a lot of money.

There are a lot of us with big dollar street cars using them hard on the track which can result in small repairable damage, but will kill us on resale....

This is why we ask ourselves to CUP or not to CUP, that is the question

Dan Jacobs

I think that your question is impossible to answer based on the information provide. If you want a blanket statement that has no basis in fact you'll for sure get that

Fooshe

Dan,

Why do you say that? It's merely a hypothetical car with hypothetical damages and the situation asks how you suspect you would react to the senario if it was presented to you. It is not exact, nor is there a right or wrong answer. It is basically a gage on people's feelings on buying a repaired vehicle, assuming the repairs were executed to a very high standard. Would it make a difference to you? If so, how much of a discount (if any) would you require to make the purchase? Or would you not touch it under any circumstance?

This is not a scientific, controlled study. It's just a simple question that nobody needs to over think. What are your thoughts on the topic?

CRex

Fooshe, part of this is your own psychology and nobody else can answer it better than yourself.

Are you a perfectionist? Or the 80/20 type? Do you notice imperfections, be it the slightly misaligned panel, the differing gap widths, or that clunk in the suspension?

To me there are various components to the ownership equation. One part is the knowledge that the car is in the best condition it can be. What you know is one thing, but sometimes what you don't know can be equally troubling. I'm keenly aware there are many other schools of thought out there so I caveat by saying this is only me.

I had a nasty incident with my 997.1RS transmission last year. Basically the tranny oil drain popped at very high speeds (180mph+) and the transmission ran bone dry for 10 minutes at those speeds before any action was taken. The car underwent a $25k rebuild afterwards--with practically everything in the tranny replaced with OEM parts--but in my mind it never felt the same again. The vibrations, the noise, the feel--everybody who drove my car, including other RS owners, said they couldn't notice a thing, but it was enough for me to finally throw in the towel and sell the car (with full disclosure, of course).

So back to you, I think it boils down to your personality and your intended uses. A repaired, CPO'd GT3 will make a nice adornment to any garage. Would I track it with tub damage, definitely no. But as a collector's item for the occasional sunday drive? Perhaps. There's a right price for everything, be it prized steeds or dogs with fleas.

Fooshe

CRex....I truly thank you for your input, but I think you may be overlooking one simple thing, this has nothing to do with me. This question is put to everyone and each person's answer is their own. Based on what you contributed, you are over thinking the question.

Simply put, what is YOUR opinion on the subject? I am not seeking anything other than public opinion. It is not to bolster how I feel or to take a position one way or another. It is simply a chance to see what the fourm's opinions are....that's it. Again, there is no right or wrong answer. This is not a pyschological journey or philisophical probe, it is just a simple question of how do you, as your own person, feel about the situation presented.

Very interesting and I thank you for your analysis.

Number54

No way I would buy a crashed GT3. Prices are low enough that I just don't think its worth the risk. Especially if you can find a car that already has the expensive mods you would do anyway, there are some great deals out there. Gosh if someone offered me 30% off, I'd probably walk away thinking something much more serious is wrong! I'm not very trusting... The cars I looked at had owners that barely wanted to sell, obviously loved their cars, and weren't willing to bargain much.

CRex

To answer your question directly: I'm short any car with a crash history. I'd pay scrap value at best. Period.

Fooshe

Again folks, thanks for sharing your opinions.

Keep them coming!!

9.5 Degrees

this could be the most unusual question I've ever read on the 6-gt3 forum. Why this question? Is this for a purchase you're considering? Are you writing a book? Opening up a repair shop? Sorry I don't get it.

Fooshe

That's a fair question.

I work in the insurance industry and see this every day. I get the question all the time and I can only speak from my poiint of view and how the contract reacts to a claim. Simply put, diminuation of value is not covered as a first party claim. Since it is directly excluded, it clearly exist. That being said, it is a real claim on a 3rd party basis but seems to be one that is debated as it is not an exact science.


In light of all that, I got to thinking....how does one evaluate a diminishment of value and is it different for each vehicle? Since this fourm is specifically for a low production "super car" that is mostly owned by enthusiasts, I thought it would a passionate group to ask the question to. As you have read, the fourm has not disappointed.

I am not an author, I am not in the repair business and I already own a beautiful 996 GT3. I am simply asking a question I have asked myself and am looking to see what the groups thoughts are on the topic.

What I am finding most ironic is that people are asking why I want their opinion. Usually this fourm is full of nothing but people expressing thier opinions...I mean hello! It's a blog for God sake. Be that as it may, I appreciate your curiousity and thank you all for your input. Good stuff.

Tedster

The purchase of a 996 GT3 is an emotional one, much more so than the purchase of a daily driver like a Honda Accord or even a Mercedes S class. The value of a less than pristine GT3 is diminished far more than for a similarly priced daily driver even if the repairs are perfectly repaired. For me, the low mileage value is almost completely wiped out by anything but extremely minor damage. I would frame the car's value as about the same as other crashed cars with a slight premium for the low miles.

Fooshe

Very interesting....I very much agree with that point of view.

So, because there are a few choices, where in the poll do you fall? What percentage off would the car have to have in order for you to consider it?