KOAN

I guess it is unknown how well the softened glue will remain leak free over time, using this method. It is faster and less expensive, and may be enough.

BTW, Andy, interested in going to VIR with David Murry? Don't want to hijack. PM me

Rovman

I see what u r saying, but doesn't the leaking start because the fitting(s) start to come out of the casting(s)? I know that is related to the adhesive failing, but perhaps because the bolt would not allow any movement of the fitting it may not allow leaking, thenroblem solved. I guess to answer that question a study or data on the actuall failures would need to b compiled. Food for thought I guess.

I guess the reason why I am interested in this repair is I can perform this myself. As I am not a welder, The welding solution requires for other parties to get involved.

FFaust

Stephen, yes, the problem is the failing adhesive, but the dangerous issue that we are trying to prevent, is the sudden loss of all coolant on the track (or street) due to these fitting popping out of their castings.

As Andy said, the "pinning" a la Sharkwerks will prevent this from happening, but will not prevent the adhesive from failing... although, it might if it prevents movement, as you mentioned???

If your fittings are pinned, they will not "blow" out, and a "inoffensive" leak, should it occur, will be easily detected by the smell, at which point you will have lots of time to address the leak, while not having caused any carnage (deliberate use of this word here).

Rovman

"it might if it prevents movement" I guess this says it all... The welding WILL stop the dumping/leaking and the pinning MIGHT.

I just recently started tracking my GT3 as I finally got the roll bar/ seats/ harnesses/track brake pads and fluid all sorted. My last track day this was on my mind the whole time, worried about possibly spinning/crashing. Worse yet, if I would cause someone else to spin/ crash from my fluids. Not good.

I DO plan on getting the repair done it is just that while the engine is out I want to take advantage and not only perform the coolant fitting repair but also install new clutch & LWFW/LW pulley, rebuild the LSD, and a few other maintenance tasks of opportunity. All this together will take quite a bit more funds, so I am saving up at the moment so I can do it all at once. Another month and I should be there with the funds I think. Anyway, looking forward to getting this done..

The pinning is an interesting solution though. Any pinned coolant fitting cars out there?

Dan@SharkWerks

Hi guys,
Sorry I couldn't get back to this thread earlier. If you read some of my other replies I believe I've answered a couple of these questions. But I'll try my best to answer a couple of these now:

Hi Rovman,
Please see my previous post to this thread, I think it will help a bit in answering this.

We do not weld these fittings, however we have done many of these cars with the fittings pinned as described in this thread. I'm not sure of the number (maybe Alex or James can help w/ that), but I'm sure in the range of 30-50+. Some were done 5-6 years ago, many have over 20,000-40,000 miles by now.

Zero have leaked to date as far as I know.

A GT3 came in last week for a 3.9L upgrade. A well-known shop performed a coolant fix for his car. Their solution was to weld the fittings. The car has had around a dozen track days. When we took apart the car we found this:



Tiny pinholes in the welds, that were probably invisible at the time of completion, lead to leaking coolant.

Hi AudiOn,
From what we've seen, even with 100k miles on a GT1 motor, coolant does not leak through the original adhesive. It is only susceptible to the pipes separating and coming apart. It is sealed well against leaks.

Thanks for replying Chuck, please see my post above.

This is correct. I put in bold exactly what we have found.

And this is what concerns me, the shop that welded the fittings above is well known for their fabrication. Now the customer has to replace the part and re-do all these repairs.

Every Shark Werks 3.9L, every 996 / 997 Turbo engine we've built since 2005, and many cars that dropped in for this repair are running the pinned pipes and none have leaked yet that I'm aware of. There are several Rennlist members who might not even be aware of how we do the fix and just about all are taken to a track.

fbirch

^^^I hate to say it, but those are fairly sloppy-looking welds. My pipes are being welded right now, and I’ll be very disappointed if they come out looking anywhere near that bad. I selected the welder for my car based on the high-quality of welding he did for colleagues of mine in the past.

kk2

Echoing this.. Posted these pics in one of the other threads:

DAB+

Now that looks like some very serious welding

Dan@SharkWerks

Hey guys,
I agree completely that these were poor welds. This was just something we happened to run across that morning so I thought it was relevant. I am interested to see how the carefully welded fittings you show hold up over time and miles, I assume they will not be leaking like the ones I've shown. I do still believe either solution would be adequate if done right, the point of this thread for me was really to bring attention to the issue.

mikemdd

The welding pictures "look" impressive. However, I usually have my engine cover closed. "If" either method works equally well (ie no blow-outs and catastrophic coolant loss), which no one has shown not to be the case, I would go with the least costly and still effective approach...pinning. I just wish I was closer to the bay area where someone who knows how to do it properly could do my car.

Mike

Rovman

Hey Dan,

Agreed about the welding in your example, not the best.
I wanted to thank you for posting that example and for the feedback though. That is the feedback that I was looking for. I like the simplicity of the repair, and from your feedback seems to be very effective as well. I figured while I am saving up for all the preventive maintenance and mods, I would do a little research on all options.

I am also very interested in your 3.9 rebuild option. R U guys still performing this type of rebuild on the 996 GT3. I am so far away, I guess I would ship the car to you, than fly out to drive it back when done. Concerning tuning for th car after the 3.9, I see that was done at Another location, is this still needed are this this something you can do in house as well?

Thanks again

Number54

We don't know "if" the methods work equally well. And even if they both do their intended job perfectly, they are still different as the welds avoid a slow leak in the way the bolt doesn't.

Some members think the screw is enough, while others fear it might fail, and still can leak. Some don't mind a slow leak but want to avoid a blow-out. Some want quality welds that will avoid blow-outs and leaks. And apparently some pay for quality welds and don't get them, as pointed out above by Dan. Pick your poison.

Dan@SharkWerks

Glad to help!

Yes we are still doing these on the 996 GT3, I can give some more details if you would like via PM or email. The tuning can be done in house. Our initial dyno work and testing was done at EVOMS in Arizona.

MikeAWD

These Torque Solution fittings done properly by Taso @ TKX and they should be pressure tested before being reinstalled because the pin hole leaks will not show up to the naked eye in most cases..

http://www.torquesolution.com/product-p/ts-por-001.htm

code7rpd

Dan,

Is the Loctite high strength thread locker (271 I believe) adequate for pinning or are you guys using a different Locktite?