How much faster are stiffer springs and revalved shocks?
10-15-2009, 04:28 PM
#31
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I've decided to definitely go with stiffer springs and revalved shocks, but can't afford the Motons or JRZs.For reference, I ran a 2:07.4 in that same BW configuration in 90+ degree heat in a stock '03 Carrera 2 (non-GT3) on MPSCs & factory X74 suspension with only -0.4 degrees of front camber. On equal tires, a GT3 ought to spank that time with its stock suspension (so long as it's working correctly). So by that theory you have over 7 seconds of time to gain before you "need" a more track-oriented suspension.
I can send you video/data of my 2:07.4 lap if it would be helpful for you.
10-15-2009, 05:47 PM
#32
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That's pretty soft, did you go stiffer?? I am at like 550-750 and want to go stiffer, although since Victor dialed my car in for me nicely the car got VERY STIFF all of a sudden, not necessary? Been contemplating it lol
As for the OP, when you are ready to move up, do a complete setup as others have mentioned, the results/confidence of driving at the car's and your potential is priceless at that point!
As for the OP, when you are ready to move up, do a complete setup as others have mentioned, the results/confidence of driving at the car's and your potential is priceless at that point!
10-15-2009, 05:52 PM
#33
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You may get another 2 sec from the revalve but the difference in feel will be worth it alone.
Let me throw out the cargraphic coil over option. Non adjstable but much stiffer and already dialed in. I can't give you a time delta for this mod but the gt3 I drove with them felt so good that I was going to get them but optioned to blow my wad on motons mojoballs and a ton of other ****.
Let me throw out the cargraphic coil over option. Non adjstable but much stiffer and already dialed in. I can't give you a time delta for this mod but the gt3 I drove with them felt so good that I was going to get them but optioned to blow my wad on motons mojoballs and a ton of other ****.
10-15-2009, 05:52 PM
#34
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You may get another 2 sec from the revalve but the difference in feel will be worth it alone.
Let me throw out the cargraphic coil over option. Non adjstable but much stiffer and already dialed in. I can't give you a time delta for this mod but the gt3 I drove with them felt so good that I was going to get them but optioned to blow my wad on motons mojoballs and a ton of other ****.
Let me throw out the cargraphic coil over option. Non adjstable but much stiffer and already dialed in. I can't give you a time delta for this mod but the gt3 I drove with them felt so good that I was going to get them but optioned to blow my wad on motons mojoballs and a ton of other ****.
10-17-2009, 01:46 AM
#35
Just a second opinion here: If as you stated in your OP you experienced tire-rubbing at a previous track and feel like your GT3 is handling vastly differently than others (partly evidenced by your 2:14 laptimes), then before you spend a bunch of money on a whole new suspension, you might want to spend a little bit of time/$ just checking that what you have on the car now is in good working order. Has your alignment slipped out of whack? Do you have a disintergrated bushing somewhere that is allowing all sorts of slop? Or a leaking shock? Stuff like that. Rule all that "cheap" stuff out before you spend big $.
For reference, I ran a 2:07.4 in that same BW configuration in 90+ degree heat in a stock '03 Carrera 2 (non-GT3) on MPSCs & factory X74 suspension with only -0.4 degrees of front camber. On equal tires, a GT3 ought to spank that time with its stock suspension (so long as it's working correctly). So by that theory you have over 7 seconds of time to gain before you "need" a more track-oriented suspension.
I can send you video/data of my 2:07.4 lap if it would be helpful for you.
For reference, I ran a 2:07.4 in that same BW configuration in 90+ degree heat in a stock '03 Carrera 2 (non-GT3) on MPSCs & factory X74 suspension with only -0.4 degrees of front camber. On equal tires, a GT3 ought to spank that time with its stock suspension (so long as it's working correctly). So by that theory you have over 7 seconds of time to gain before you "need" a more track-oriented suspension.
I can send you video/data of my 2:07.4 lap if it would be helpful for you.
10-17-2009, 12:26 PM
#36
Rennlist Member
Here's some low-tech suggestions:
1. measure the wheel opening heights with a tape measure. There is typically some variance but if something has moved enough to cause a wheel to rub it might show here.
2. visually check the shocks for leaks.
3. check the camber with a level. I glue on little blocks of wood to sit on the wheel edge rather than the tire. This can't be used to set camber but can show if something has moved.
4. measure the toe in F&R with the tape measure; again this is not accurate at all but might show if something has moved. My Benz was doing some weird things after a recent alignment and a quick check with a tape measure showed almost an inch of toe in at the rear. Turns out the alignment equipment operator had forgot to pull the lock pins on one of the rotating plates...boy were they embarrassed!
5. check the sway bar uprights to make sure an end hasn't come loose. Usually they clunk but not always
1. measure the wheel opening heights with a tape measure. There is typically some variance but if something has moved enough to cause a wheel to rub it might show here.
2. visually check the shocks for leaks.
3. check the camber with a level. I glue on little blocks of wood to sit on the wheel edge rather than the tire. This can't be used to set camber but can show if something has moved.
4. measure the toe in F&R with the tape measure; again this is not accurate at all but might show if something has moved. My Benz was doing some weird things after a recent alignment and a quick check with a tape measure showed almost an inch of toe in at the rear. Turns out the alignment equipment operator had forgot to pull the lock pins on one of the rotating plates...boy were they embarrassed!
5. check the sway bar uprights to make sure an end hasn't come loose. Usually they clunk but not always
10-17-2009, 12:35 PM
#37
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Mine had "blown" shocks per my coach. I'm don't pretend to have the feel that he does but the car wasn't reacting correctly, it wouldn't be ready when the weight is transferred. By ready I mean the car will still be rolling when it should have been squatting already etc. The timing is off. Bad shocks will not control the spring. we (stock) have very soft springs it should crash on the bump stops or the opposite shudder or act like a pogo stick and be too springy.
There are 2 directions of shock travel; compression, when the spring compresses and rebound the opposite. they work together to "dampen" the osculation of the spring. this has a frequency and should match the spring rate. if they work correctly you have a suspension that works when you want it to transfer weight. ie roll squat dive etc. you control the frequency by the valving. Hence motons are double triple or whatever adjustable you control the motions independently to better control the weight transfer and thus balance, understeer oversteer roll etc. very important in a race car that needs to be configured for different tires that have different spring rates and different tracks that affect the spring rate/frequency also for under and oversteer. for a street car this is all set by the valving and is a cmpromise. All revalving does is match the spring rate and leaves you to control the balance through sway bars and such coarse adjustments.
you need to have someone who knows what they are doing or it will be worse then before that's why when most go to motons they become slower because they haven't matched the frequency of the spring correctly. Careful what you wish for, b/c in my race car i had D/A shocks that were not set up right and the car plain sucked weight transfer was off, it understeered, it would roll "wrong" it sucked. Once it was dialed in (my coach reversed the settings from what the shop did) and the car was transformed.
There are 2 directions of shock travel; compression, when the spring compresses and rebound the opposite. they work together to "dampen" the osculation of the spring. this has a frequency and should match the spring rate. if they work correctly you have a suspension that works when you want it to transfer weight. ie roll squat dive etc. you control the frequency by the valving. Hence motons are double triple or whatever adjustable you control the motions independently to better control the weight transfer and thus balance, understeer oversteer roll etc. very important in a race car that needs to be configured for different tires that have different spring rates and different tracks that affect the spring rate/frequency also for under and oversteer. for a street car this is all set by the valving and is a cmpromise. All revalving does is match the spring rate and leaves you to control the balance through sway bars and such coarse adjustments.
you need to have someone who knows what they are doing or it will be worse then before that's why when most go to motons they become slower because they haven't matched the frequency of the spring correctly. Careful what you wish for, b/c in my race car i had D/A shocks that were not set up right and the car plain sucked weight transfer was off, it understeered, it would roll "wrong" it sucked. Once it was dialed in (my coach reversed the settings from what the shop did) and the car was transformed.
10-17-2009, 12:46 PM
#38
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Iif i needed to do it again I would by the norchlife version of the cargraphic and be done with the whole shebang. and I would sell the stock suspension to offset the cost of install and corner balance and alignment. (don't forget you have to do these things again.)
to properly set up a car with motons you need a few things short of a shock dyno, data, new tires, a track where you have no traffic and unlimited time. ie a private day. And a pro. You take a reference lap, go back out ,one click come back in, one click one lap etc and compare the data. Did you get on the throttle earlier etc from your reference lap, this is assuming that you are consistent to within .1 sec per lap. only some of us are hence the need for the pro.
to properly set up a car with motons you need a few things short of a shock dyno, data, new tires, a track where you have no traffic and unlimited time. ie a private day. And a pro. You take a reference lap, go back out ,one click come back in, one click one lap etc and compare the data. Did you get on the throttle earlier etc from your reference lap, this is assuming that you are consistent to within .1 sec per lap. only some of us are hence the need for the pro.
10-17-2009, 03:20 PM
#40
Three Wheelin'
Iif i needed to do it again I would by the norchlife version of the cargraphic and be done with the whole shebang. and I would sell the stock suspension to offset the cost of install and corner balance and alignment. (don't forget you have to do these things again.)
to properly set up a car with motons you need a few things short of a shock dyno, data, new tires, a track where you have no traffic and unlimited time. ie a private day. And a pro. You take a reference lap, go back out ,one click come back in, one click one lap etc and compare the data. Did you get on the throttle earlier etc from your reference lap, this is assuming that you are consistent to within .1 sec per lap. only some of us are hence the need for the pro.
to properly set up a car with motons you need a few things short of a shock dyno, data, new tires, a track where you have no traffic and unlimited time. ie a private day. And a pro. You take a reference lap, go back out ,one click come back in, one click one lap etc and compare the data. Did you get on the throttle earlier etc from your reference lap, this is assuming that you are consistent to within .1 sec per lap. only some of us are hence the need for the pro.
10-21-2009, 01:28 AM
#41
10-21-2009, 05:32 PM
#44
10-21-2009, 06:51 PM
#45
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Their new radial slick. http://www.hoosiertire.com/speccat.pdf page 16
Amazing tire. Takes a few laps to get to temp but then they're heaven.
NJ-GT isn't selling his scud yet, and thats the one I'm getting.
Amazing tire. Takes a few laps to get to temp but then they're heaven.
NJ-GT isn't selling his scud yet, and thats the one I'm getting.