OK, so we've seen this thread a hundred times before...
08-06-2008, 12:38 AM
#31
Race Director
BMWCCA E36 M3 in IP class prep.
Fast enough to be interesting and lots of people to race with.
For 20k you can get a very nice one ready to race.
That's my plan. This way I get to keep the GT3. If I race the GT3 it will cost me the same as buying the bimmer. If I get a Cup it will cost me a lot more to race it. I can change engines in the BMW every season and it will still be a lot cheaper than the Cup unless I drive the Cup only two events a year.
And geographically I am within 6 hours of driving of 5 BMWCCA races per year. Only 2 or 3 PCA races are within the same distance.
Fast enough to be interesting and lots of people to race with.
For 20k you can get a very nice one ready to race.
That's my plan. This way I get to keep the GT3. If I race the GT3 it will cost me the same as buying the bimmer. If I get a Cup it will cost me a lot more to race it. I can change engines in the BMW every season and it will still be a lot cheaper than the Cup unless I drive the Cup only two events a year.
And geographically I am within 6 hours of driving of 5 BMWCCA races per year. Only 2 or 3 PCA races are within the same distance.
08-06-2008, 02:27 AM
#32
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Sure enough, the recurring thread pops up again.
My advice is keep your GT3, it's done depreciating.
Do buy an already log booked ready to go $20k race car.
Spec Miata is popular, but kind of slow.
BMW E36 M3's are light, fun, reliable, and inexpensive to buy and operate. They move pretty well and have plenty of classes and clubs to race in, spares are easy to find and you can play full contact motorsports without having your heart ripped out. They also hold their value well and are easy to sell. I'd recommend that or the Boxster route if you're super partial to the marque.
If you have $110k for a good 996 Cup + $60K operating budget and do your own crew work, then do the Cup route.
My advice is keep your GT3, it's done depreciating.
Do buy an already log booked ready to go $20k race car.
Spec Miata is popular, but kind of slow.
BMW E36 M3's are light, fun, reliable, and inexpensive to buy and operate. They move pretty well and have plenty of classes and clubs to race in, spares are easy to find and you can play full contact motorsports without having your heart ripped out. They also hold their value well and are easy to sell. I'd recommend that or the Boxster route if you're super partial to the marque.
If you have $110k for a good 996 Cup + $60K operating budget and do your own crew work, then do the Cup route.
austin, good to hear what a realistic cup price budget is from someone who knows them well.
08-06-2008, 02:43 AM
#33
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you already trailer so you got that taken care of.
you need:
wife support.
money, a lot of it, i dont think 60k/year is enough to run a full racing schedule with cup car.
but if you drive a full on race car, like a factory cup, a street GT3 is a POS. i have a lot of track miles on my 996gt3 and RS and drove cup car 3x. the cup car is they way to go. but i dont have the money to run it and my income (or should i say, my wife) will leave me.
you need:
wife support.
money, a lot of it, i dont think 60k/year is enough to run a full racing schedule with cup car.
but if you drive a full on race car, like a factory cup, a street GT3 is a POS. i have a lot of track miles on my 996gt3 and RS and drove cup car 3x. the cup car is they way to go. but i dont have the money to run it and my income (or should i say, my wife) will leave me.
08-06-2008, 04:30 AM
#34
It's completely impossible to say the budget for racing a Cup without disclosing what series we're talking about and how the effort is setup. The figures mentioned are completely taken out of the air. 
Last edited by Rassel; 08-06-2008 at 04:49 AM.
08-06-2008, 06:14 AM
#35
Three Wheelin'
FWIW I think the e36 m3 route is correct. It was what I was planning until very recently when it became apparent I've got too many other commitments and I'm not willing to sell the RS. Hence selling the m3 that I've dumped a load of cash into and is heavily prepped for racing. (n.b. not trying to sell to you, its in the UK and I have a buyer!)
The main reason if I'm honest is that I don't really have the time to run the car myself, and nor do I have the funds to pay someone else to do it for me. Every time I am on the brink of starting racing, I realise I'm not willing to make the financial sacrifices that it would require on my current income. Keep going back to doing some karting - can learn a lot of race craft but it can be very frustrating. Especially as the series I did a few races in seemed to not scrutineer properly so people cheated on ballast etc. No fun being massively outdragged by a 4ft munchkin!
The main reason if I'm honest is that I don't really have the time to run the car myself, and nor do I have the funds to pay someone else to do it for me. Every time I am on the brink of starting racing, I realise I'm not willing to make the financial sacrifices that it would require on my current income. Keep going back to doing some karting - can learn a lot of race craft but it can be very frustrating. Especially as the series I did a few races in seemed to not scrutineer properly so people cheated on ballast etc. No fun being massively outdragged by a 4ft munchkin!
08-06-2008, 08:49 AM
#36
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Let's say I want to race and the GT3 (street) I currently have is either getting a full cage and everything else it needs, or it's going to go (I dont need it for the road - I've got an RS4 for that). And let's say I can afford a Cup Car, but want to stay married, and only want to do 5 (PCA) race weekends next year, and probably the same in 2010. Maybe up to 10 thereafter. So, three choices:
1. Stock J class for the GT3 - $15k ish of mods
2. Sell GT3 for $75ish and get an '05 Cup Car for $110ish.
3. Keep the GT3 as is for practice and do 5 "arrive and drives" next year.
Given the operating costs of 1 and 2 are likely to be considerable (2 being double i would imagine), maybe 3 is the way to go??
1. Stock J class for the GT3 - $15k ish of mods
2. Sell GT3 for $75ish and get an '05 Cup Car for $110ish.
3. Keep the GT3 as is for practice and do 5 "arrive and drives" next year.
Given the operating costs of 1 and 2 are likely to be considerable (2 being double i would imagine), maybe 3 is the way to go??
08-06-2008, 09:04 AM
#37
Burning Brakes
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If your source of "arrive and drive" cars provides decent cars at the places you want to race at then 3 would be the better choice.
You'll have just as much fun racing a car lesser than a GT3 Cup, especially if you have other people to race with.
You also have to consider what happens if you stuff the rental race car. Do you pay for all of it? Is there insurance?
I would only race a car that I could comfortably cover financially in case something goes horribly wrong.
You'll have just as much fun racing a car lesser than a GT3 Cup, especially if you have other people to race with.
You also have to consider what happens if you stuff the rental race car. Do you pay for all of it? Is there insurance?
I would only race a car that I could comfortably cover financially in case something goes horribly wrong.
08-06-2008, 09:07 AM
#38
Nordschleife Master
To be competitive you are going to need more than 15K in mods. Unless of course you are well on your way and the rest if just come "cleanup" requirements to race (ie, cage, electrical cutoff, full fire suspresion, etc).Again, depends on if the car is totally stock or has has considerable work done recently.
08-06-2008, 11:06 AM
#41
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15k will not be enough mod money. you can bet on that.
your price for arrive and drive is about right. it's a tad higher. not much.
your price for arrive and drive is about right. it's a tad higher. not much.
08-06-2008, 12:03 PM
#42
Burning Brakes
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I mean $15k from where I am already...I have the suspension, exhaust, flywheel and wing...just need safety stuff like roll cage, kill switch, fire supression..and a few other thinks like Motec/AIM, transponder and quick fill cap.
08-06-2008, 12:55 PM
#43
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when you say motec, do you mean just the motec dash or you plan to run full motec management. i dont know the class rules, but i do know full motec engine management and ancillaries can really blow your 15k into pieces.
not trying to put water over your party. i looked at it many ways, it's just $$$ no way around it. and unless GT3 street cars get into a big popular class, a ripped up GT3 street car will not have any value while cup cars get most of your money back. two friends of mine had their cup for 2 years, doing DE and few races. they sold them for 10k less than what they paid for... NOW that's a deal. (not counting running cost of course)
08-06-2008, 01:22 PM
#44
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ok, you are getting close then.
when you say motec, do you mean just the motec dash or you plan to run full motec management. i dont know the class rules, but i do know full motec engine management and ancillaries can really blow your 15k into pieces.
not trying to put water over your party. i looked at it many ways, it's just $$$ no way around it. and unless GT3 street cars get into a big popular class, a ripped up GT3 street car will not have any value while cup cars get most of your money back. two friends of mine had their cup for 2 years, doing DE and few races. they sold them for 10k less than what they paid for... NOW that's a deal. (not counting running cost of course)
when you say motec, do you mean just the motec dash or you plan to run full motec management. i dont know the class rules, but i do know full motec engine management and ancillaries can really blow your 15k into pieces.
not trying to put water over your party. i looked at it many ways, it's just $$$ no way around it. and unless GT3 street cars get into a big popular class, a ripped up GT3 street car will not have any value while cup cars get most of your money back. two friends of mine had their cup for 2 years, doing DE and few races. they sold them for 10k less than what they paid for... NOW that's a deal. (not counting running cost of course)
08-06-2008, 02:17 PM
#45
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