Toe links/ control arms
03-19-2008, 11:41 PM
#16
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
The ERP are very adjustable for bump steer. I put them in based on the great info here on this board (mine's not a GT3, though). With the ERP pieces, you can use "any" 1/2" hardware that you like to achieve silly levels of bump steer correction which you may not need, but I liked that they are also nicely made and beefy. They probably weigh a little more than the PMNA parts, though.
I think there are 3 topics inherent to toe link (track rod) discussions:
* First: get rid of those unstable eccentrics (all do this--TRG, Tarret, etc.)
* Second: ability to compensate for bump steer (only PMNA and ERP)
* Third: get rid of rubber flex (varies)
I think my ERP links were about $800 -- more than the $500-ish for TRG, etc., but worth it IMO for the ability to compensate for bump steer. With the solid ERP links, I felt noticeably better rear-end "reactiveness" along with greater noise/vibration transmission which may not be a concern to a lot of folks here. Those are the more subtle points. The rear, in general, has a whole new level of stability with the ability to control bump steer. Again, not a GT3, so YMMV but I want to contribute back to this forum what I can.
I think there are 3 topics inherent to toe link (track rod) discussions:
* First: get rid of those unstable eccentrics (all do this--TRG, Tarret, etc.)
* Second: ability to compensate for bump steer (only PMNA and ERP)
* Third: get rid of rubber flex (varies)
I think my ERP links were about $800 -- more than the $500-ish for TRG, etc., but worth it IMO for the ability to compensate for bump steer. With the solid ERP links, I felt noticeably better rear-end "reactiveness" along with greater noise/vibration transmission which may not be a concern to a lot of folks here. Those are the more subtle points. The rear, in general, has a whole new level of stability with the ability to control bump steer. Again, not a GT3, so YMMV but I want to contribute back to this forum what I can.
Indeed, I got installed the ERP at the front, because the car needed a lot to eliminate front bump steer (I knew about them long time ago, and got them recommended again by Loren at 911 Design).
The Porsche parts allow +/- 10mm only, it comes with +/- 5mm rings, so longer or extra rings are needed to get +/- 10mm. If you need more than that, forget about this Porsche part.
03-20-2008, 12:46 AM
#17
Three Wheelin'
Interested in these too, what's the benefit of the control arm combo? My bump steer is totally eliminated with the Moton's, solid mounts and so on in my GT2. But this past weekend at VIR I was getting a wallow/uneasy feeling once getting much faster through the uphill esse's, our very own 930man Matt told me the solid Toe Links in the GT2 eliminate that.
Thoughts?
Thoughts?
We were thinking of going out to Greg Jones lapping day at VIR.
03-20-2008, 01:30 AM
#18
Control arms bushings are cheap, something like 10 euros or US$200. The ERP toe links are cheaper than the Porsche MotorSports, and they are visually better: bigger, well finished, and come with rubber boots to protect the monoball bearings.
Any toe link will do the work, Tarret, ERP , GMG, Porsche, etc.
In addition to these links and solid bushings on control arms, I did the upper monoball arms (dog bones, cheap) and inner monoball bearings for control arms ($$$$$ from PMNA). No noises whatsoever in almost two years. I put monoball drop links at the back, but I doubt anybody would notice a difference.
My Motons have the upper monoball strut mount. Be aware that Moton CS have rubber bushings at the bottom for the rear strut. The Moton MotorSports are lighter (Aluminum body) and use monoball bushings.
Any toe link will do the work, Tarret, ERP , GMG, Porsche, etc.
In addition to these links and solid bushings on control arms, I did the upper monoball arms (dog bones, cheap) and inner monoball bearings for control arms ($$$$$ from PMNA). No noises whatsoever in almost two years. I put monoball drop links at the back, but I doubt anybody would notice a difference.
My Motons have the upper monoball strut mount. Be aware that Moton CS have rubber bushings at the bottom for the rear strut. The Moton MotorSports are lighter (Aluminum body) and use monoball bushings.
TRG are NOT adjustable
Tarett have two versions 1 that is and one that isn't
ERP I have no idea about.
PMNA are adjustable (I have them front and rear)
FYI....bump steer is NOT eliminated with Moton's. You need to have adjustable toe arms like the PMNA, etc, to be able to bumpsteer the car for load.
Tarett have two versions 1 that is and one that isn't
ERP I have no idea about.
PMNA are adjustable (I have them front and rear)
FYI....bump steer is NOT eliminated with Moton's. You need to have adjustable toe arms like the PMNA, etc, to be able to bumpsteer the car for load.
I am seeing 165-168 on the back straight, and front I don't even look, back straight i'm going into 6th WOT and on the front im going into 5th, but this isn't that accurate because I am not redlining (7k7200) and shifting at 6k!
03-20-2008, 01:52 AM
#20
03-20-2008, 10:19 AM
#22
Rennlist Member
TRG are NOT adjustable
Tarett have two versions 1 that is and one that isn't
ERP I have no idea about.
PMNA are adjustable (I have them front and rear)
FYI....bump steer is NOT eliminated with Moton's. You need to have adjustable toe arms like the PMNA, etc, to be able to bumpsteer the car for load.
Tarett have two versions 1 that is and one that isn't
ERP I have no idea about.
PMNA are adjustable (I have them front and rear)
FYI....bump steer is NOT eliminated with Moton's. You need to have adjustable toe arms like the PMNA, etc, to be able to bumpsteer the car for load.
03-20-2008, 12:10 PM
#24
It is quite nice since it has really no lag either, LWFW helped tremendously and the zero clearance turbos..
BUTTTTT, I do miss NA and working for it around the track!
Is it necessary to upgrade those as well as the toe links? I wold assume do it all at once right? Orrrr?
BUTTTTT, I do miss NA and working for it around the track!
So then THIS is the ERP unit sold by Tarett for $392each?
03-20-2008, 12:20 PM
#25
Nordschleife Master
One in the same. Those toe arms pictured are just ones with bump steer adjustment. The ones with that adjustment will cost you more. IIRC, my PMNA ones were about $900 a set.
03-20-2008, 12:30 PM
#26
You ain't kidding. Loving the NA power put you really gotta be hustlin' that sucker around to keep you TT guys of our ***!
One in the same. Those toe arms pictured are just ones with bump steer adjustment. The ones with that adjustment will cost you more. IIRC, my PMNA ones were about $900 a set.
One in the same. Those toe arms pictured are just ones with bump steer adjustment. The ones with that adjustment will cost you more. IIRC, my PMNA ones were about $900 a set.
You recommend that particular piece? Matt recommended solid toe links for my car to get rid of the slight wallow you can feel, when it happens which for me was only in the esses when at about 130!
03-20-2008, 12:33 PM
#27
Nordschleife Master
Not sure what you mean by SOLID ones. Front? Rear? What about toe adjustment?
As far as rec'd one or the other I would say that you cannot go wrong with either PMNA, Tarett, or ERP when selecting one. I personally went with the PMNA set.
As far as rec'd one or the other I would say that you cannot go wrong with either PMNA, Tarett, or ERP when selecting one. I personally went with the PMNA set.
03-20-2008, 12:37 PM
#28
Well I will be doing this soon, so need to do some more research! I will be picking your brain a little more in the next week or so before I order them
Martin
03-20-2008, 01:53 PM
#30
Nordschleife Master
I'd probably ping him at least to get clarification on the toe arms.