Ok. I will be politically incorrect: it seems that there is a double language when talking about spinning.

When I talk to "pros" ( which I do very often) behind a cup of coffee, practically ALL of them agree that there is nothing wrong with spinning your car on a track. It's just - they mantain - a question of limits. No big deal. You would not find were the limit is until you don't trespass it. It's not very practical, you can damage the car...and yourself ( they say ) and it depends also in which turn you take your risk.

When I talk to the same "pros" in front of third parties ( track days organizers, "aficionados" ) they begin to be more "relativistic".. " Well, you shoud keep the control on the car,etc...", " a good driver explores the limits slowly", etc...

Obviously there is - from my point of view - a question of WERE TO DO WHAT: "a hair is a hair, but it's not the same in my head than in my soup". A spin is a spin but it depends when and were it happens and under which environment ( track day, DE, race ).

I have my self a dilema: I know a driver that continously spins and visits the boundaries of the track. He his very fast the day he succeeds to stay in the track.. We all ( our tracking group) think that he is a disaster, a danger for himself, for his car and perhaps for the rest of us...

I have spun eight times in my last four track days. At least four of them being coached by a pro sitting next to me. I am known to be a reasonable driver ( typically 1.5 / 2 sec slower than a pro on a 1'50" lap ) and "carefull" . I have to admit that It's obvious ( to me ) that I am spinning more now than before, as I am trying to squeeze the last fractions of seconds in some places...

Funny enough, on my 1st track year I unly spun ..once.

BTW - and this is clearly politically incorrect - the more I spin...the more I learn about car limits ( I know it's shocking, as car control is opposite to spinning ). As a matter of fact , now I only do a spin after having controlled the car trying to spin several times on the same track..

So... What is right and what is wrong ?

 

Here is my input:

I am a track day kind of guy so I drive within the limits of the car as I have no need to push the car to the absolute limit for my personal entertainment.

My wife is a racer and spins many times during the course of practice and sometimes in qualifying. The general school of thought is that if you are not spinning the car every now and then, you are not pushing it to the limit. She would even venture to say that spinning is good practice because it will happen in the heat of battle and how you recover is the difference between keeping on racing, taking up the rear, or wrecking the car.

A third opinion from a friend who is an ex factory professional racer (pro rally) who claims that he has not spun a car on the track in 5 years unless it was caused by a failure or an unavoidable accident. He comments that you should be able to find the limits of the car and the track, drive up to them and even beyond them while maintaining control. I can't argue as he is VERY fast in almost anything under any conditions.

I personally think that it all depends on the class of car. It is not very wise to go and spin an open wheel car in practice unless you want to risk suspension damage as you leave the track. However in a sedan class, it is not nearly that big a deal as the cars are much tougher. Then you get into something like Spec Miata and the MX5 Cup, these cars seem to be designed to run off road as well as they run on road so all bets are off and they are spun ALL the time by even the seasoned pros.

 

I think it depends on the type of racing, too. I agree with both of the posts above about the occasional spin; however, I must add that in my years following karting here in SoCal, the one thing I've noticed is that the top drivers rarely spin on their own. There might be many reasons for this as perhaps they did spin when they were younger and less experienced, but now that they have perfected their craft they simply do not spin.

 

I don't think you need to spin to know you reached the limit. Maybe once or twice but it should become possible to recognize when you are reaching the limit. The car gives you lots of clues. You keep bumping up the speed and try new things gradually. When you reach the limit you get situations that are still correctable and you know the limit. Going way over the limit causes the spin.

But if you are at one of those ultra modern tracks with miles of paved runoff then, if there are no cars around you, spin away. Learning by spinning at the Nurburgring will be too short. But I have seen pictures from F1 grade tracks in France where you can't possibly do anything to harm yourself of the car.

 

Reasonable comments here as I see it.

Spinning is part of this sport. If a driver does it over and over at the same section of a circuit or all over the circuit then I see that as a learning problem.

Another aspect to this is a risk assessment of when one should really push the limits. Most circuits have sections were a loss of car control is relatively safe for the driver and the car. Those are the sections where a driver can explore the limits and not be penalized for exceeding them. Depending on ones goals the other sections of the track may eventually have to be pushed as well in order to have the complete 'fast' lap. Taking the incremental approach of attacking the lower risk sections first and then working up to the higher risk sections does work.

We had a really lengthy thread on this 'spinning" topic on the 'driving forum'.

 

Ah, you must be thinking of Paul Ricard! I think you could spin for miles on that track without hitting anything.

 

I spin every so often through incompetence, but I really don't think its necessary. As mentioned above a really skilled driver catches an error before it becomes a spin. You don't see many F1 drivers spinning... An error should mean a slow exit or slow entry as you go off line or slide it - not hauling your car out the gravel imho.

Additionally spinning is hardly safe if there are other cars around, or cheap if you end up coming off the track. I push a lot harder when I kart than when I'm in my car, and I don't spin the kart when racing unless I get tapped. Wish I was equally able in my car

 

I hope she doesn't do one of her "necessary" spins right in front of another racer and end up T-boned. You shouldn't be spinning out regularly.

Anyone that spins several times in a weekend needs to examine their car control skills, their car set up or their aggression levels.

 

Exactly.
I watched a full weekend of F1 in person in Montreal. The majority of drivers don't spin at all during all the sessions. Some do spin during practices but in benign places, probably looking for the limits of their setup. They don't crash out in the notoriously dangerous spots. That is done by the Ferrari Challenge guys

 

Found the mentioned thread on this same topic ..https://rennlist.com/forums/showthre...light=spinning

 

Maybe this is not relevant, but here are my thoughts. When I practice flying the instructor will teach me how to recover from a spin. This is good practice as it can save your life if it ever happens. However, a more important lesson is learning to recognize the warning signs of a potential spin and correct the aircraft before the spin happens.

In a car, a spin will really screw up your lap times. I would think that it is good to learn how your car reacts in a spin and how to manage your car when it does. It could save your life. However, it is better to recognize what your car is telling you and to correct the car before it loses control. You should be able to comfortably take your car to its limits of adhesion and dance on either side of the line without losing control.

 

There are many, many variables involved in a spin. Besides simply pushing the limits, there's your setup, track conditions, and most importantly your tires and pressures. Minor adjustments can have major implications and sometimes that's what it takes to get the car right. Spins happen....

 

I rarely spin, I do however loose control from time to time and recover. I find the GT3 be very communicative and there is a certain amount of "slip-grip" where you can correct errors before ending up in the asparagus. Driving at the end of the "slip-grip" is usually slower then at the beginning.