GPS Data Acquisition Systems
02-22-2007, 11:35 PM
#1
Three Wheelin'
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GPS Data Acquisition Systems
I was curious how many people use GPS Data Acquisition Systems? If so, which one.
Last season I used one from Traqmate.com (complete system) and I was very happy with the system because it was a great learning tool -- lots of graphs to analyze the laps. One of the things I found the most useful was sharing the device with other friends at the track and comparing the information. At the beginning of the season I was slower than many of BMW E46 M3's and other cars basically because I was afraid of the GT3. However, after sharing the device and looking at the entry speeds into the turns I saw I was much slower which should not be the case for a car with almost 50 more HP and 300lbs less weight. Over time I was able to shed a lot of time because my confidence grew and looking at points on the track where I could carry more speed.
My other question if anyone has the Traqmate system do you have the RPM gauge and does it work properly? Seeing the RPM's at all points of the track would be another tool to improve performance.
Last season I used one from Traqmate.com (complete system) and I was very happy with the system because it was a great learning tool -- lots of graphs to analyze the laps. One of the things I found the most useful was sharing the device with other friends at the track and comparing the information. At the beginning of the season I was slower than many of BMW E46 M3's and other cars basically because I was afraid of the GT3. However, after sharing the device and looking at the entry speeds into the turns I saw I was much slower which should not be the case for a car with almost 50 more HP and 300lbs less weight. Over time I was able to shed a lot of time because my confidence grew and looking at points on the track where I could carry more speed.
My other question if anyone has the Traqmate system do you have the RPM gauge and does it work properly? Seeing the RPM's at all points of the track would be another tool to improve performance.
02-23-2007, 03:44 AM
#2
Burning Brakes
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M3E46 is close to 50/50 weight distribution. If I were to switch from that to Porsche, I will have to change my driving style. This is the first time I have read about GPS based tool but on my Go-Kart I have g-load sensor that can map the track.
02-23-2007, 07:55 AM
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However, after sharing the device and looking at the entry speeds into the turns I saw I was much slower which should not be the case for a car with almost 50 more HP and 300lbs less weight
on a very technical track ( which should suit them..). Unfortunately I can not help on the Traqmate ( I never had one...up to now). I am also considering some short of data acquisition system.I wonder if such a device is really helpful without a coach that explains the causes behind the data. Knowing that I am slower in a turn will not help me much. Knowing WHY will..
: Am I braking to early, putting gas late, touching to early the apex, too much steering wheel..? I believe that running with a good coach sitting next to me outperforms - up to a certain level of driving knowledge - any data acquisition system(DAS)... I even think that the info from the DAS could mislead me trying to be faster without really knowing how...Well, obviously I have no answer from your question. I am only adding new questions to it...
02-23-2007, 10:29 AM
#4
Rennlist Member
I use the Traqmate a lot for both personal gains and when I coach other drivers. It is a great tool that can be installed in any car in less than 5 minutes and give data that is close to that of the data systems Pros use. My best results using the Traqmate came one weekend at Roebling Road. The driver I was working with had an ITA Integra (momentum car). I used the Traqmate along with riding with him in the car and driving his car with him in it with me. His lap times improved 4 seconds (went from a 1:28s to 1:24s consistently). The Traqmate in this instance really helped him out because we could compare the speeds I maintained through the turns with the speeds he maintained. He could immediately see the areas he needed to work on in between the sessions. He would then go out and focus on those sections and the techniques we discussed.
The Traqmate is a great tool to help anyone learn how to use a data system and how to use the data to then improve their own driving. Writing track notes for each time at the track, having the data to back those notes up, and then comparing them before and after the next event will help to make anyopne a better and more consistent driver.
The main question I saw that you asked in the first post was about the RPM gauge and if anyone had used it with the Traqmate. I have not and the reason why is because I move my unit from car to car and I can't hook the RPM input up in every car I use it with. Would it be helpful? Yes it definitely would be a huge help. You can then a data screen that will look similar to this http://traqmate.com/v2images/Traqdata.jpg The RPM portion could be compared lap after lap and you could tell where you were slower and possibly why. Having the other sensors like Throttle position and brake pressure would be a lot more helpful with the RPM sensor. This way you can compare exactly lap after lap where you hit the brakes and where you went to throttle and how much throttle. Compare your data with a Coach driving your car data and you can learn a whole lot more in a short time.
The Traqmate is a great tool to help anyone learn how to use a data system and how to use the data to then improve their own driving. Writing track notes for each time at the track, having the data to back those notes up, and then comparing them before and after the next event will help to make anyopne a better and more consistent driver.
The main question I saw that you asked in the first post was about the RPM gauge and if anyone had used it with the Traqmate. I have not and the reason why is because I move my unit from car to car and I can't hook the RPM input up in every car I use it with. Would it be helpful? Yes it definitely would be a huge help. You can then a data screen that will look similar to this http://traqmate.com/v2images/Traqdata.jpg The RPM portion could be compared lap after lap and you could tell where you were slower and possibly why. Having the other sensors like Throttle position and brake pressure would be a lot more helpful with the RPM sensor. This way you can compare exactly lap after lap where you hit the brakes and where you went to throttle and how much throttle. Compare your data with a Coach driving your car data and you can learn a whole lot more in a short time.
02-23-2007, 10:40 AM
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I just bought a VBox Performance Box, it looks to be very easy to use, and reasonably priced ($500). Haven't gotten to the track, but running around a makeshift "track" in a business park, it seems to work as advertised, even without an external antenna.
Gary
Gary
02-23-2007, 02:18 PM
#7
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
GPS Data Acquisition
Nothing replaces a good coach or a professional driver, but for under $1,000 GPS Data Acquisition is one of the best investments you can make without touching our car. I happen to have Traqmate which I like a lot and other systems are good such as one from Race Technology in the UK.
The best thing is with a little training you can really analyze the information to tell if you are braking too soon or too late, break down the track to segments to see if one line is faster than another one, lateral g-forces, speed, etc.. For some of my intermediate and above students I let them use the system and compare them with their peers.
So attached is an example of three cars: 2 E36 M3's and my GT3 -- not really fair to put my car in the mix, but both of the M3 where of a similar setup.
Look at the Blue Driver vs. the Black Driver lines. You will see the blue driver line is much faster than the black driver line. The black line can braking way too much around all the turns. So I can work with the individual and try to get him to carry a little more speed into a specific turn and measure the performance. This is just one example. The second picture is an indivdual break down for each turn.
I am suprised more people do not use these tools. I know the RPM gauge will help me and I was wondering if anyone used the traqmate one to see if there were any installation / compatibility issues in the GT3.
The best thing is with a little training you can really analyze the information to tell if you are braking too soon or too late, break down the track to segments to see if one line is faster than another one, lateral g-forces, speed, etc.. For some of my intermediate and above students I let them use the system and compare them with their peers.
So attached is an example of three cars: 2 E36 M3's and my GT3 -- not really fair to put my car in the mix, but both of the M3 where of a similar setup.
Look at the Blue Driver vs. the Black Driver lines. You will see the blue driver line is much faster than the black driver line. The black line can braking way too much around all the turns. So I can work with the individual and try to get him to carry a little more speed into a specific turn and measure the performance. This is just one example. The second picture is an indivdual break down for each turn.
I am suprised more people do not use these tools. I know the RPM gauge will help me and I was wondering if anyone used the traqmate one to see if there were any installation / compatibility issues in the GT3.
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02-24-2007, 12:12 AM
#8
Instructor
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try this WWW.BLACKLINEGPS.com The only one that will let map any track and then will show you an exact line where you are on the track.
All other ones ( without spending $$$$) will not do it and you get all the date you need.
I rep them in TX and I love it. I can get you a better deal that if you buy it direct from them.
PM if you have any questions
All other ones ( without spending $$$$) will not do it and you get all the date you need.
I rep them in TX and I love it. I can get you a better deal that if you buy it direct from them.
PM if you have any questions
02-24-2007, 11:13 AM
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Originally Posted by nmex
try this WWW.BLACKLINEGPS.com The only one that will let map any track and then will show you an exact line where you are on the track.
All other ones ( without spending $$$$) will not do it and you get all the date you need.
I rep them in TX and I love it. I can get you a better deal that if you buy it direct from them.
PM if you have any questions
All other ones ( without spending $$$$) will not do it and you get all the date you need.
I rep them in TX and I love it. I can get you a better deal that if you buy it direct from them.
PM if you have any questions
Gary
02-24-2007, 01:48 PM
#11
Three Wheelin'
Are any of these able to use postprocessing of the GPS signal to make it more accurate? If you look at say a D1 out from (the race technologies unit) you can see a drift over the course of the day as the sats move a bit. Not sure how well it lets you compensate for this either which is annoying.
I've got very close to buying a DL1, but seen complaints they don't update the software enough. They do use a decent GPS unit though - faster than the one in the cheaper non-pro vboxs.
Has anyone tried the various units to work out which is best? Particularly interested in how traqmate compares to the DL1.
I've got very close to buying a DL1, but seen complaints they don't update the software enough. They do use a decent GPS unit though - faster than the one in the cheaper non-pro vboxs.
Has anyone tried the various units to work out which is best? Particularly interested in how traqmate compares to the DL1.
02-24-2007, 03:33 PM
#12
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
The D1 is a very good unit and offers a lot of flexibility especially if you want to add additional analogue and digital sensors. I liked the display of the traqmate system and that they are a local firm. The folks in the states that I spoke with about the D1 only had good comments about the unit. So, for the UK folks I think the D1 would be a good investment especially since they have been around for awhile and have a good product.
I am sure most of the GPS units are good and accurate. It depends on personal tastes with the software and the size of the display. Some people like a big display and some people like a small display. These products offer a lot for typically $1,000 or less compared to a professional system that would cost a lot more. I liked the traqmate system because the user manual was easy to understand and the software was user friendly. Also, I can lay video on-top of the data which really brings the two-dimensional picture to life. Your best bet is to go to the vendors website and download the software and user manual and see which system fits you better.
For individuals doing DE 's these somewhat inexpensive systems that provide tons of information that is easy to understand and an individual could put together a plan of action based on the information. Of course, knowing you can go into a turn faster is a little different than actually performing the operation.
I am sure most of the GPS units are good and accurate. It depends on personal tastes with the software and the size of the display. Some people like a big display and some people like a small display. These products offer a lot for typically $1,000 or less compared to a professional system that would cost a lot more. I liked the traqmate system because the user manual was easy to understand and the software was user friendly. Also, I can lay video on-top of the data which really brings the two-dimensional picture to life. Your best bet is to go to the vendors website and download the software and user manual and see which system fits you better.
For individuals doing DE 's these somewhat inexpensive systems that provide tons of information that is easy to understand and an individual could put together a plan of action based on the information. Of course, knowing you can go into a turn faster is a little different than actually performing the operation.
02-25-2007, 01:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Wolfgang_K
Hi Gary,
where did you buy the VBox Performance Box? You bought it online from vboxusa?
Wolfgang
where did you buy the VBox Performance Box? You bought it online from vboxusa?
Wolfgang
Gary
02-25-2007, 08:00 AM
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Are any of these able to use postprocessing of the GPS signal to make it more accurate?
The Acquisition software they use - and the "proffesional" systems they know - do not give the driving line . THey still have to interprete an X/Y chart ...
Is this correct or is it an "European" GPS problem ?
02-25-2007, 08:41 AM
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GPS comes in a variety of flavours.
Differential GPS is capable of extreme accuracy. To use differential GPS it is more involved than most people posting on this board would wish to get involved in as the costs are not insignificant both to the individual user and the provider of the differential signal.
Mostly the 'accuracy' of normal GPS is illusory, the power of self delusion never fails to amaze me.
Several years ago, I recall sitting alongside at the CYCA in Sydney Harbour having a drink and discussing the race series we were then leading overall. As we did we made bets on where the boat would be displayed next on the screen, although we were not moving. The GPS signal varied in accuracy and our position varied over time by up to 440 yards.
This is a 'European' problem, its one of perception not accuracy however.
R+C
Differential GPS is capable of extreme accuracy. To use differential GPS it is more involved than most people posting on this board would wish to get involved in as the costs are not insignificant both to the individual user and the provider of the differential signal.
Mostly the 'accuracy' of normal GPS is illusory, the power of self delusion never fails to amaze me.
Several years ago, I recall sitting alongside at the CYCA in Sydney Harbour having a drink and discussing the race series we were then leading overall. As we did we made bets on where the boat would be displayed next on the screen, although we were not moving. The GPS signal varied in accuracy and our position varied over time by up to 440 yards.
This is a 'European' problem, its one of perception not accuracy however.
R+C