Chris L.

After the reply I just posted you want me to explain something?

It sounds to me like what you are describing essentially is devoid of trailbraking. When I first started doing this that is how I was taught to brake. Threshold that is. All braking done in a straight line, harsh initial application holding this for a long time. I actually did this for the better part of my first 1.5 years. I began to hear the term trailbraking but really had no instructor show me the proper way to do it much less describe what was happening when I did such. I read about it and all, but...

David tried to show me that driving a car is all about physics (movement, inertia, weight management, etc.). He spoke of 5% brake inputs to "settle" the nose, 5-10% horsepower inputs to put weight on the rear tires. I don't know how to calculate 5-10% tips at the restaurant much less being able to feel what 5% horsepower changes feel like. HaHaHa!

With braking he states that he has braking points but really he does not have them...huh? Well what he went on to say was that he "felt" how fast he was going coming into a particular corner and because he knew exactly where he wanted to initiate turn in, would brake on a scale of 1-10 down such that he would always be at a 3 when he reached that point. Thus he may start at a 5 for X mph or an 8 for Y mph, again based on feel. He would then trail the brake from 3-2-1 as he initiated turn in and be off the brake completely only just before the apex where he would begin throttle application.

Thats all. To me it was nothing more than a good explanation of trailbraking and one that I could understand easily.

Hope that helps.

Larry Herman

Everything, and I do mean everything concerning driving a car is about balance. You drive to keep all 4 tires as firmly planted as you can when you want maximum grip, and at times purposely unbalance the car to get it pointed in the direction that you need. Dell, getting on the brakes smoother allows the tires keep their grip. That's why it feels better. I did a classroom on balance at Summit Point last year. It was an eye opener for many.

LVDell

Chris, better explanation. Totally understand now.

Larry, you ain't kidding. I am slowly but surely learning how much time you give up thinking you are going fast but then unbalance at the wrong place and BAM! there you go fighting to get back ON balance. That is the part of driving I am trying to "master". Driving with great balance=smooth and that is what I assume we are all after?

ps. I need to just get back on the track

Chris L.

Nice way of stating it Larry. David taught me how to balance the car better. Not be so harsh but be in control of the movement of the car at all times. I would like to think I am better at this than I was before...but I have so much to learn as evidenced by my questions on this thread.

mfennell

Right-o.

Karting is good for this IMHO because driving over the limit usually doesn't have the consequences of doing so in a car. You can practice dancing on the pin all day long. On a sharp day (or just for a few sharp laps or even corners) when you get it right - that's what keeps you coming back for more. The line between in-control and out that seemed so fine becomes a big gray area for you to play in.

It's probably fair to point out that I'm a big p*ssy and my GT3 will likely never see the track. Honestly, the idea of trying to learn the limits of the car on a real track (Summit turn 4, anyone? or most of the corners at the Glen) is kind of scary. I'm impressed that you guys do it.

Larry Herman

That is a shame, because you will never really know the beauty of that car. Stock GT3s run really strong, especially at a bumpy track like Summit Point. How does 156 coming into turn 1 sound? Or the long pull up the back straight at the Glen. Maybe after you get a bunch of miles on it, you'll change your mind.

RJFabCab

Excellent summary statement, Larry. "Make the car dance..."

mfennell, I've enjoyed the discussion.

As for Chris Caveman's latest posts... me too tired to think.

Me look forward to VIR with Zone 2.
Bench racing and brewskies with Rennlist buds!

RJFabCab

+1

Learning the GT3 has been very rewarding and very humbling. The slope of my learning curve in it has been rather conservative due to the somewhat non-disposable nature of the auto.

I must say that the car is quite outstanding bone stock. As you push harder and harder, some of the 'shortcomings' of the street car start to show... but it's a real joy to drive!

va122

+2
Every time I rip off a fast lap, I feel like the car is laughing at me. As if to say "is that all you got you ____" (You can instert your own explitive)

GT3 Nut

Chris L.
Your post before really made me laugh! The whole time I have been reading this thread I am thinking "I must be just plain dumb". I usually cannot put into words anything like the way some of these guys like Larry and Dell are saying. The problem with me is that I just want to drive! I just do what feels right to me. I don't really want to think about it. That is probably why I will be slower than you guys in the end! But I am having fun!!!

mfennell

Scary. When I raced motorcycles back in the early 90s, I don't think a strong 600 got much over 140. The SpecRX7s went (ahem) about 115. You had time to balance your checkbook up the hill at the Glen.

What kind of lap times do well driven stock GT3s run at Summit?

Larry Herman

Well driven stock GT3s on Hoosiers will run low 1:22s to high 1:21s.

mooty

BTDT.
then you put coil over, heim joints, delete muffler, rip out int.... then you can drive it to the grocery store anymore ;-)

mooty

you use that too?
cheaper and lighter you know.
you like the extra long for hvy flow days hahaha.

Stuttgart

Just to clarify, racing brake fluid is a must with our race compounds (97, 01, 03, 05, etc). While we would prefer an ester based fluid (Castrol SRF) there are other glycol based fluids that work as well, but they are far more hygroscopic. Wet boiling point is key. ATE Blue which a lot of people in PCA run (I used to run it as well) is not the best choice with our pads.

The torque of our pads is higher than the Pagid pads without a torque loss with temperature. When you slow a vehicle in a shorter distance it will create more heat, and since the pads don't fade you can boil your fluid if you do not have fresh hi temperature fluid. Because of this Pagid and Hawk aren't competitor of ours in the higher levels of professional racing.

-Phil Gilsdorf
Director of Marketing
Performance Friction Corp.