GrantG

They have only seen service in the CGT in the US before the most recent airbag laws went into effect. This is the reason the CGT sales in the US were stopped...

JasonAndreas

CGT sales were not stopped, the DOT rewrote the rules for everybody.

The 997GT3 is the 964RS-Touring and the 997GT3RS would be the equivalent of the 964RS-Basic. If you compare the number of different parts between the RS-Touring and RS-Basic it is about the same as the difference between the regular 964 and the 964RSA.

MetalSolid

The US 996 GT3 didn't even have the 'RS' monika and wasn't used to homologate the race cars, so the same comparision isn't and can't be made.

If the US 997 GT3RS cannot be optioned like the ROW car from Porsche, then it's not a RS, it's simply a GT3 with some different suspension pieces and bodykit. Hell, the so called US GT3RS(A) can't even be considered a Clubsport, because it doesn't have the seats or cage.

Now, if you can option the ROW version without seats and cage, or the US version comes with the cage dis-assembled in the trunk, then the US version can be considered a true RS, otherwise it's simply a RSA.

To answer your question: Of course I would have wanted the 996 GT3RS without lexan, cage & seats, just for the improved suspension - but I wouldn't have called it a RS after retro-fitting those items. And the difference between 997 GT3 & 997 GT3RS suspension isn't even that great.

PS: Also note differences in the blurb on the Porsche US and ENG websites. Nowhere in the US Motorsport section does it mention homologation for Gran Tourismo championship or technical solutions from the race car applied to the road car, like it says in the ENG website.

MJSpeed

The RS Touring in Europe was still very different from the RSA. The RS Touring and RS Basic still shared the same chassis which the RSA did not. The RSA had virtually no similarities with either one. The ROW 997 GT3RS will have the same chassis, same suspension, same drivetrain, same body work...the only difference thus far are the seats, rollbar and windows (although I expect this) this is still all speculation.

MJSpeed

Your missing the point which is that by your rationale the US 996 GT3 wasn't a true GT3 because it didn't have the ROW GT3 seats.
Again if the only difference are the seats, rollbar and windows...then it's an RS! If the US 996 GT3 can be considered a "real" GT3, eventhough it didn't have the seats , then this can be considered an RS.
Again could you have ordered the ROW 996GT3 without the GT3 seats, NO, nor did they come in the trunk then was it not a "real" GT3. The seats, rollbar and windows doesn't make an RS what it is. Besides the seats, rollbar and windows (if you really wanted) could be retrofitted, like the 996 GT3 Seats. No matter what you retrofitted to the 964RSA it would never be anywhere close to an RS! (different Chassis).
I'm not calling it that, Porsche is. They apparantely feel that there are enough similarities between the two to warrant that.
Have you driven both to say this? Besides that's not that point. The US 997 RS apparently will have the same suspension as the ROW version which neither 997GT3 (US or ROW) has.

Look I think we're arguing semantics...if I understand you correctly what you're saying is that if it's not exactly like the ROW RS they (Porsche) shouldn't call it an RS.

What I'm saying is that to compare/assimilate the US 997 GT3RS to the 964 RSA is wrong. The divide between the 964RS and RSA is much, much greater than the speculated difference between the ROW 997GT3RS and it's US counterpart.

Would you feel better if maybe Porsche would call the ROW RS the RSR and the US version the RS or something of the sort. They know better than to call the US version the RSA.

Frankly whatever they call it I don't care if what we hear is true, which is that it's better and faster than all the 996 GT3 variants and more hardcore than the 997 GT3. I'll either confirm or dismiss this once I drive it.

JasonAndreas

The chassis is one-in-the-same, the RS Touring had the transmission tunnel seam-welded to the floorpan, the rear-axle crosstube, crossmember and shock absorber mounts and the engine supports seam-welded. The RS Basic had those mods and some brackets (like the RSA) removed. The RS Touring also had AC, a dual-mass flywheel, power-steering and a sunroof.

The 997GT3RS is to the 997GT3 as the 964RSA is to the 964C2. Your getting different seats, a few suspension mods, an LSD, some bodywork mods, some lightening and an RS VIN. I think that is why people are making the comparison. Which is not really a bad thing, try driving a regular 964C2 and an RSA back-to-back they feel completely different.

MetalSolid

No, I'll tell you what my rationale is, and it doesn't extend beyond the GT3RS. You're missing the point, by continuingly trying to use the MkII GT3 as an example as to why you think the US version of the 997 GT3RS is a proper RS. My point is an RS is an RS because it's used to homologate the 911 for GT racing. If the US version is missing even one thing that's required for homologation then it's really not a proper RS - it's a "RSA". That's my point.

( And if the MkII GT3 was used to homologate the 996, you'd have a point, but it wasn't; Porsche had to invent the 996 GT3RS to do that. Plus, as you say, the difference between the US & ROW MkII GT3 is really only the seats, not the lexan, rollcage, side-airbags, sunroof, battery cut-off, fire extinguisher, six-point harness, etc that differentiate the 997 GT3 from it's RS cousin. )

Sure there are people that only want the RS name, VIN and look, so they can store it away as a collection's item, never to see track duty.

38D

The RSA was not seem welded. It was a normal US C2 chassis.

MJSpeed

I think you need to re-read my post...that's exactly what I said: "Look I think we're arguing semantics...if I understand you correctly what you're saying is that if it's not exactly like the ROW RS they (Porsche) shouldn't call it an RS.

What I'm saying is that to compare/assimilate the US 997 GT3RS to the 964 RSA is wrong. The divide between the 964RS and RSA is much, much greater than the speculated difference between the ROW 997GT3RS and it's US counterpart."

This whole discussion has been based on the fact that the only differences between the ROW RS and the US RS are just the seats, rollbar and windows. Besides as far as homologation goes, Porsche isn't homologating the seats, rollbar and/or windows...those are all completely different in the race cars. They're homologating drivetrain configuration (engine block), chassis and suspension geometry/pick up points(the latter being the main reason the 996 GT3RS was created). What's next if it comes with everything except the alcantara steering wheel then it's not an RS?

Porsche builds the RS because it has to, they also make money on it. The seats, rollbar, fire extinguisher, six point harness, CF parts, aerodynamic pieces (like the RS wing) and windows are there for showcase/marketing and customer attraction purposes.

Polar Peter

http://www.caranddriver.com/carnews/...old-in-us.html

MetalSolid

MJ, I guess it is semantics, as I missed the bit where you mention homologation... I also never used the 964RS/RSA as a comparison, that's the other guy, I'm just taking the name (RSA) and applying it to the US 997 GT3RS.

At this point I have to say it's not fact that the only differences are rollbar, lexan and seats - for example, a change in seats means different airbags... In a previous post I point to the variations in the Porsche website that kinda imply larger differences between US & ROW.

MJSpeed

I only hope like I think you do that there are no changes and if they are that they are minimal!

Cupcar#12

i think the correct comparision would be (in the 964 world) hopefully the
the 92' Carrera cup USA vs. the 92-94 Carrera RS

the USA car did not have everything that the RS did, no club sport package, Yes to Airbags, standard seats, elec windows, full underdash pad (nessecitated by the airbag install) but what it did have is more important. Seam welding, g50/10, RS motor, thin glass, etc.
it was an RS made for the US - not a US car made into an RS for the american market as was the RSA.
neither of these cars resemble the RSA in any way and should not really be compaired to it. limes and oranges

in the final specs this should be evident for the GT3 RS

JasonAndreas

I know and for the Carrera RS Porsche took a regular C2 chassis and added seam welding to where the transmission tunnel connects to the floorpan, the rear-axle crosstube, crossmember, shock absorber mounts and the engine supports. A total of 3(?) feet of welds each seam 30mm in length and spaced every 25mm is not a new chassis.

The MK1 is an RS and should have been called an RS but wasn't because the marketing department wanted to better align the model with the racing series regulations at that time ('98 when there was GT1-GT2-GT3), the MK2 is no different. Just because you remove a single part (for say the USA version) doesn't all-the-sudden change the car into something other than an RS. Each little "RS" modification on its own is really very minor and not that big a deal but together they all add up.

AeroGT3RedWing

6k for seats isn't ridiculous? There are better, safer aftermarket composite seats for significantly less than 6k.