Revo Mitchell

Nord,

I am going to be at the 'Ring on the 23rd, 24th, 25th, and 26th of this month with the very car which made the numbers. Would you care to come over (I know it is a bit of drive), it would be an excellent opportunity to dismiss the claims. I will have some 104 and will also have straight Shell 100 to test. If you know of someone who would be willing to use their dyno we could strap it down and end any speculation. I will even buy you a beer afterwards, or you buy me one if the numbers are correct. Sorry, I won’t be up for taking the engine out and putting it on a test stand. Besides, I never enjoyed driving a test stand around the Ring anyway.

DanH

Ok next question seeing as all my other ones seem to get ignored. Why can't the 104 map be fully adaptive as per the OEM ones so that one doesn't need to change maps manually?

Nordschleife

Shall we leave it at 'you still don't see'. I am not in the business of telling people how to fudge pulls, it is done, frequently. Its not what they do, its how they do it. Unless you know what to look for you could watch them doing it 100 times and never realise what they are doing.

Even when not fudging, issues like roller slip, gear selection, wheel size (relative to rollers), forced air supply, weight on car...... all play their part in obfuscating the measured torque.

If you drive highly tuned cars you will realise they make the power they make at that moment, frequently, it was different yesterday and will be different tomorrow.

Life would be simple if it was as you state it to be, but it isn't. Take your car to Weissach for testing and they take the engine out and put it on a brake, as they do at elite tuners.

You will see lots of chassis dynos at NASCAR races. Draw your own conclusions.

R+C

Revo Mitchell

The short answer is resolution. There simply is not enough resolution in the factory map to take advantage of race fuel. It is designed to compensate for environmental variables as well fuel variables and it does this exceptionally well. However, when adding an element as large as race fuel it will run at its "100%" which is not high enough to take advantage of the extra octane and oxygen the race fuel provides. By adding switchablility to the code we can move the optimal window plus or minus and always utilize the fuel at hand.

Nordschleife

Incidentally, I don't dispute your claims, I well know that if you are certain you have 104 octane then you can 'turn the wick up' in ways you wouldn't normally, from a prudence point of view. My beef is with people quoting absolute numbers based on chassis dyno runs.

I am busy until after Le Mans, instead of my coming over, why not drop in on Manthey and discuss what you have done, there. But I will be over after Le Mans.

Cheers
R+C

Revo Mitchell

Fair enough, I actually somewhat agree. I will be going back several times this summer, honestly it would be good to meet up. I will be with Radical at Le Mans, come over and say hello.

DanH

There is always the Manthey trackday at the ring in August

Of course they have their own GT3 mappings so I dunno how they could be said to be entirely impartial on matters such as these.

Nordschleife

they would be good people to impress however

R+C

Revo Mitchell

Agreed, Olaf is one of my heros too. Ok, I am in... August track day at Manthey.

I am going to visit while I am over and will set it all up (if they will let me). I think even though they have their own mapping we would get a fair result. Perhaps I should buy some stuff too, oh twist my arm!!! I have a ton of respect for them and their products.

Bruce G

Don't make it personal! I actually agree with all of what you're saying. It is impossible for anyone to make absolute number claims without sticking the lump on an engine rig.

But please lift the veil from my eyes, enlightened one! Tell me what I should be looking for when these charlatans run my car on the dyno?

Nordschleife

one of the problems with consulting the oracle is that the answer only makes sense when you understand it. Give it some time.

R+C

George@Revo Technik

So I guess my ticket will be at 'Will-Call'???

George@Revo Technik

Chip, As it so happens, I'll be at Reeves Motorsport in Tampa tomorrow. I know it's short notice at this point but any chance you can meet me over there? Please call me on my cell if you happen to see this post.