Saw God and thinking about PSM
05-05-2006, 05:02 PM
#31
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Hmmm... Reading this blurb from Porsche, the 997GT3 TC sounds a lot like PSM, just dumbed down.
Traction Control derived from Carrera GT
To optimize traction and driving stability, the new 911 GT3 features not just a limited-slip differential, but also on-demand Traction Control (TC), similar in its features and qualities to the system on the Carrera GT. TC comprises the ABD (Automatic Brake Differential), ASC (Automatic Slip Control) and EDC (Engine Drag Control) functions in a single unit.
This means that in conjunction with the anti-lock brakes, the new 911 GT3 now comes with a system able to stabilize the car when both braking and accelerating. TC helps to keep the car properly on path and ensures stable driving behavior particularly in bad weather such as rain or when running on road surfaces different from one side of the car to the other.
With the drive wheels spinning, ABD will cut in first, applying the brakes on the wheel with higher slip. Should both wheels be spinning, ASC will cut in within fractions of a second, intervening in engine management to take back engine power by reducing engine drive forces on the gas pedal as well as the ignition angle, until both wheels have re-gained their traction.
The ASC telltale will flash on the instrument cluster as soon as the system becomes active, with ASC remaining fully operative and cutting in when required while accelerating throughout the car’s entire speed range.
A special function within ASC is Engine Drag Control or EDC for short. This control system cuts in, for example, when after downshifting on a slippery surface, the rear wheels threaten to lose their lateral stability. In such a situation the control system responds quickly by automatically applying throttle and reinstating the car’s driving stability.
The driver has the option to deactivate the system completely by pressing the TC OFF button. In this case the driver is informed accordingly by the ‘TC OFF’ telltale coming on in the instrument cluster display.
To optimize traction and driving stability, the new 911 GT3 features not just a limited-slip differential, but also on-demand Traction Control (TC), similar in its features and qualities to the system on the Carrera GT. TC comprises the ABD (Automatic Brake Differential), ASC (Automatic Slip Control) and EDC (Engine Drag Control) functions in a single unit.
This means that in conjunction with the anti-lock brakes, the new 911 GT3 now comes with a system able to stabilize the car when both braking and accelerating. TC helps to keep the car properly on path and ensures stable driving behavior particularly in bad weather such as rain or when running on road surfaces different from one side of the car to the other.
With the drive wheels spinning, ABD will cut in first, applying the brakes on the wheel with higher slip. Should both wheels be spinning, ASC will cut in within fractions of a second, intervening in engine management to take back engine power by reducing engine drive forces on the gas pedal as well as the ignition angle, until both wheels have re-gained their traction.
The ASC telltale will flash on the instrument cluster as soon as the system becomes active, with ASC remaining fully operative and cutting in when required while accelerating throughout the car’s entire speed range.
A special function within ASC is Engine Drag Control or EDC for short. This control system cuts in, for example, when after downshifting on a slippery surface, the rear wheels threaten to lose their lateral stability. In such a situation the control system responds quickly by automatically applying throttle and reinstating the car’s driving stability.
The driver has the option to deactivate the system completely by pressing the TC OFF button. In this case the driver is informed accordingly by the ‘TC OFF’ telltale coming on in the instrument cluster display.
05-05-2006, 06:14 PM
#33
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Originally Posted by DanH
Is ABD supplementing the mechanical diff then?
It's worse than I thought. Now they are doing what BMW has been doing by cheating the regular 3 and 5 buyers out of a real diff with this craptastic fake computer simulated LSD.
What's next? Tippy magic tronic on the GT3? How about them power cupholders?
05-05-2006, 06:55 PM
#34
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Originally Posted by stuka
Bwahahahahahaha.
It's worse than I thought. Now they are doing what BMW has been doing by cheating the regular 3 and 5 buyers out of a real diff with this craptastic fake computer simulated LSD.
What's next? Tippy magic tronic on the GT3? How about them power cupholders?
It's worse than I thought. Now they are doing what BMW has been doing by cheating the regular 3 and 5 buyers out of a real diff with this craptastic fake computer simulated LSD.
What's next? Tippy magic tronic on the GT3? How about them power cupholders?
05-05-2006, 07:11 PM
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Originally Posted by DanH
I'm certain it does have a real mechanical diff too, but it seems to have less lockup than on the 996 (at least I read that in some bumpf somewhere, but it could be inaccurate). Perhaps too much lockup would make it tricky for the traction control to work, so some of it needs to be simulated?
Random info, my wife used to work at one of those big Oxridge law firms in London.
05-05-2006, 07:18 PM
#36
Three Wheelin'
Originally Posted by stuka
It can be done. BMW has already done it on the E46 M3. The DSC can be 100% turned off, and they have a diff that can feed 100% of the power to one wheel. So it can be done, why it is not done on the GT3, I don't know.
Random info, my wife used to work at one of those big Oxridge law firms in London.
Random info, my wife used to work at one of those big Oxridge law firms in London.
Random info, my wife works at a London law firm, but I married her despite that.
05-07-2006, 08:08 PM
#38
Nordschleife Master
Originally Posted by 03-turbo911
I never turn off psm on my turbo when on the track. It rarely comes on or interferes if you drive it as smooth as you can.
05-07-2006, 08:22 PM
#39
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You know, it's funny reading this thread about girly men and their tippy magic tronic PSM turbos.
As the last turbo forum poster that I so offended by calling PSM stupid and tippy magic tronic girly man Turbo said "get a new forum."
Nice change of pace for me. For a while I was wondering if there is a forum here where people actually want to learn how to drive a car and not steer it and let computers save them.
I am now back on the hunt again since the last GT3 that I was interested in appears to have backed over something (warped rear bumper center) and the dealer was not willing to take my Turbo on trade.
I hate selling cars. But I guess I have to give eBay a shot, oh, and hook up the battery tricle charger so I don't kill it while the car sits and waits for its buyer.
As the last turbo forum poster that I so offended by calling PSM stupid and tippy magic tronic girly man Turbo said "get a new forum."
Nice change of pace for me. For a while I was wondering if there is a forum here where people actually want to learn how to drive a car and not steer it and let computers save them.
I am now back on the hunt again since the last GT3 that I was interested in appears to have backed over something (warped rear bumper center) and the dealer was not willing to take my Turbo on trade.
I hate selling cars. But I guess I have to give eBay a shot, oh, and hook up the battery tricle charger so I don't kill it while the car sits and waits for its buyer.
05-07-2006, 11:51 PM
#40
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Originally Posted by stuka
Yes, I had the PSM off and got myself in a tank slapper situation.
I guess I am trying to make two points.
1. PSM, when off, still will not let you stomp on the throttle mid corner.
2. Following 1, it should have been able to save my from my tank slapper even though I had it off.
I am trying to caution people that PSM really makes you second guess yourself. And I just as soon not have it. If I screw up, fine, I screw up. None of this maybe, perhaps, possibly, was it me or was it the computer deal.
I guess I am trying to make two points.
1. PSM, when off, still will not let you stomp on the throttle mid corner.
2. Following 1, it should have been able to save my from my tank slapper even though I had it off.
I am trying to caution people that PSM really makes you second guess yourself. And I just as soon not have it. If I screw up, fine, I screw up. None of this maybe, perhaps, possibly, was it me or was it the computer deal.
When you turn off PSM, you lose traction control and stability control. Yaw control is always on. Yaw control is active under braking (even without invoking ABS) and is why 38D says PSM intrudes on cars with R compound tires (I agree). Yaw control doesn't like trail braking. With PSM off, a tank slapper is definitely possible unless you are braking.
I do agree with Stuka about PSM making drivers think they are better than they are. When ABS first came out, insurance companies and auto execs expected to see a dramatic reduction in accidents. It didn't happen and it became apparent that cars with ABS had the same accident rate as those without.
Best,
05-08-2006, 03:16 AM
#41
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Originally Posted by 38D
If you are not hitting PSM then you are not going fast enough. PSM is very intrusive for even a moderately powered car with R tires (even if driven smoothly).
05-08-2006, 07:48 AM
#42
Nordschleife Master
Originally Posted by 03-turbo911
Not really, you can go at a pretty fast clip and still not have psm interfere.
