mrcohanian

Just curious what people on the board think. How different is a c2 x51 going to perform vs the new GT3. When comparing the torque and HP graphs of the two cars, the gt3 has an extra 35hp but its from 7000 to 7500 rpms and than the power drops off. At 6800rpms,both cars are putting out similar hp. Infact ,if you look at hp output from 2000rpms to 6000rpms, x51 matches if not betters gt3...As for torque, It seems that the x51 has higher mid range torque???? Am I right about this.... At 4000rpms, x51 output is 350nm vs gt3 335nm... At 4500 rpms, x51 output is 370nm vs gt3 350nm.... Only at 5000rpms is output greater on gt3 385nm vs x51 output of 370nm. Also if you look at the porsche specs, 50-75mph in 5th gear is the same for gt3 vs a regular c2 of 6.5secs. From a technical standpoint, I am wondering how much faster the new gt3 is going to feel over a standard c2 with an x51 package...... I must be wrong about this.. Can anybody help.........

AWolf

The GT3 is going to be a much more purpose built car compared to the X51. Although the numbers might appear similar on paper I am sure there will be a much more noticeable difference, not to mention the suspension and overall balance of the car. If you are going to run your car strictly on the street than you might not notice a very large difference, but if you plan on tracking the car at all the GT3 will blow the doors of the X51. Not to mention the powertrain on the cars are very different such as lightened flywheel, rods pistons etc.. A car equipped with the X51 package was not designed around it as was the GT3 so the different components of the car will not be as balanced. I can talk all I want but the cars will speak for themselves. Like comparing apples to oranges. Hope that helps a little.
-Andrew

PogueMoHone

I'm selling our X 51 to buy a GT3!

Ed Newman

There are a couple of things to think about here.

I would say a GT3 would be substantially faster than a X51 is some cases, and slightly faster in others. An X51 C4 Cab with the stock suspension is not going to be fast. An X51 C2 with a modified suspesnion and brakes will be. The difference between my car and a new Cup car at the Glen is about 10 seconds (I'm crediting a few seconds back as some of them are driven by better drivers than me). This is on a 2 min - 2:20 lap time. I'd expect a street GT3 to have half of that on my car. This would be due primarily to the brakes and suspension. We are assuming equal tires, etc. None of this matters much, as at the speeds these vehicles are capable of, the driver can easily make up that much time. With my car I was able to keep up with some of the cup cars there which are lighter and make as much HP as the new GT3.

NMoore

Trackable street car versus streetable track car.

If it is to be transportation, giving up the rubber in the suspension (especially this), sunroof, save-your-butt electronics and C4 option pretty big sacrifices.

Conversely, by doing the X51 and OE aerokit you will spend most of what a GT-3 costs. If your aspirations for performance increase from that point, well no matter what you spend you will still never quite match the performance of the purpose-built car.

Karl S

Ed,

I'd estimate that a GT3 street car would be 3-5 seconds per lap faster than a C2 X51 at the Glen.

At last week's PCA Club race at the Glen, the best Cup car in GTC3 had a pole time of 2:00 and many of them turned 2:02-2:04 for their best lap times.

The fastest 996 in C stock had a 2:13 but this is not probably not representative. I have turned 2:12's there in my old car (non-X51) and I know Chris Cervelli in a 996 had a pole time in B stock last year that was in the 2:10's (also not an X51).

Now to estimate what a street GT3 could do, you have to take the Cup car times and add to them for the 500 lbs weight difference, different ride heights, etc. Probably 5 seconds per lap right there. Maybe subtract 1 second from Chris's time for the X51 and you have a difference that's more like 4 seconds.

Karl

Ed Newman

The problem is that the X51 is only power, nothing else. I would say that an X51 car would likely be slower than a non-X51 with a modified suspension. If we look at the X51/X74 combination, I agree that with someone like Chris behind the wheel, the X51/X74 should turn 2:10, the GT3 at 2:05 and a cup car at 2:00. Keep in mind the track conditions last week. I was truning 2:13-2:17 in my car last week (hence why I need to start club racing). What I noticed compared the the other 996's and cup cars is that I had huge power difference over the 996's and was almost as strong on the straights as the lighter and lower geared older cup cars. The new one are noticable faster than me. My weakest point was the handling. The X74 is an amazing street suspension that does well on the track, but is cannot compare to PSS9's or cup suspension.

Sanjeevan

I am not well versed in all aspects of their difference, but, from the various magazine articles i've read, i'll say the biggest advantage of the gt3 is the light weight. I think gt3 will be a better performer. But, no question about the fact that c2 x51 would be a better daily driver.

GrantG

Don't forget about the dry-sump engine and G-50 based tranny. Both of these things make the GT3 much more desirable, IMHO.

Ed Newman

The GT3 is actually a heavier than my car. The GT3 has the C4 tub which is slightly heavier, plus weight from the bigger brakes and the engine is heavier. Maybe 60 lbs total. It is still dramatically (400lbs) lighter than a TT

mmm208

ed please call me re x51 package.

732 539 8002

i may cancel my gt3 order

MM

thusly

Great lively discussion - just gave up my '04 GT-3 order at $109k for an '03 X-51 with GT-3 aerokit (factory), 450 miles - list price of $98k. By the time I add the X-74 suspension, I will be into it all for $84k. Ironically, the car was bought from a Porsche dealer.

Why is it that X-51 and X-50 (turbo) packages have little, if any value, after they leave the dealers' floors??? Do you think GT-3 values will hold in the aftermarket, particularly since '02 and '03 tt X50s can be purchased for the low $100s???

Ed Newman

None of these cars hold their value anymore, Porsche has simply glutted the market in an effort to increase their profits. :-(

thusly

Great lively discussion - just gave up my '04 GT-3 order at $109k for an '03 X-51 with GT-3 aerokit (factory), 450 miles - list price of $98k. By the time I add the X-74 suspension, I will be into it all for $84k. Ironically, the car was bought from a Porsche dealer.

Why is it that X-51 and X-50 (turbo) packages have little, if any value, after they leave the dealers' floors??? Do you think GT-3 values will hold in the aftermarket, particularly since '02 and '03 tt X50s can be purchased for the low $100s???

rockitman

I would guess that when they stop shipping GT3's to North America after the end of the 04 MY production run, the GT3 will easily command the highest resale value of the Porsche models 996 TT, C2, C4S. Problem is, very few current GT3 owners will want to sell. Just my humble opinion...