FixedWing

I just don't get it. If you can turn the PSM off (and I mean completely off) then what is the difference? If it is off then it is, by definition, not numbed down. Then what is the difference? Maybe I could see your point if you were arguing that it added unnecessary weight or cost.

Stephen

Seth Thomas

It is numbed down though because to get the car to its ultimate raw characteristic you have to push a button. I do understand what you are saying but every car that Porsche offers at this point has that option. The GT3/GT2/Carrera GT are supposed to be the cars that aren't like every Porsche out there. They are the cars that represent the track version of the other Porsches. Make them the cars that not everyone can own. Make them the cars that sacrifice a comfy ride for rawness. Don't numb them up because the newest thing out there is PSM, TC, or whatever else electronical comes along.

FixedWing

I could understand your argument if the two were mutually exclusive but they are not. One can make a car which has "ultimate raw character" and also has PSM. I'm not saying that PAG makes such a car -- it bothers me that you cannot turn PSM off completely in PAG's cars -- but it could be done.

Stephen

Bob Rouleau

I believe one of the reasons the GT2/3 and CGT do not have PSM has to do with the limited slip differential which has different lock up on acceleration and braking. I have been told that this is incompatible with PSM. Traction control is compatible apparently but there may be other issues I am unaware of.

I like the raw feel of my GT3. Anyone who can drive decently can modulate the throttle to avoid (or perhaps invoke at will) power oversteer.

DanH

Call me an elitist bastard, but I like that not just anyone can get in a GT3 and go quickly (or even control it). It is one of the things that puts me off the 996TT. The GT3 doesn't flatter your ego, but nor does it set out to trip you up. Its all about the driver.

The other risk, is that Porsche will do what other manufacturers do and rely too heavily on electronics rather than solid engineering to make the cars driveable. Cars are far too easy to drive these days anyway. Most of them completely disguise the speed and forces at work. No wonder so many people drive like wreckless arseholes.

NJ-GT

That's one reason why I like this car so much. There is nothing else available in the market like this. The average Joe will be fast in a 997S, 996TT, Boxster, Cayman, etc. The 996 GT3 needs a good driver to go fast as well as the 996 GT2.

I have seen many overdriven 993TT (the Spin #4 sample above), 996TT (way too many), 996 Carreras (PSM cars), PSM Boxsters, etc. The electronics just keep them on the pavement (barely) and once in a while they're driving on the grass.

Nothing like a 996 GT2/GT3/GT3RS, a 993GT2/RS, 964Turbo/RS, 930 or any pre-90s 911.

Nordschleife

if there was any justice in life, many of the posters(sp) on this thread would be paid to drive Le Mans winning cars this summer.
I know that a fake female pubic hair piece is called a merkin, I didn't know that chest hair implants were named after an enjoyable motor car.

Ray G

I totally agree with that. If you want a safe, everyday 911, get the 997S. The GT3 should appeal to those that want a back-to-basics car. The Lotus Elise is another example.

I like having a car that I need to learn to control. And I hate having to push a few buttons everytime I start it up.

DanH

lol behave.

Just because people want to enjoy a challenging car that doesn't give away all its charms without some work doesn't mean it's a ***** enlargement on wheels. I think you are mistaking this for the Ferrari/Lambo forum. Are you suggesting that only lemans drivers should be entitled to drive cars that make any demands of the driver - that is ludicrous.

For some driving isn't just about getting from A-B, its a an enjoyable process in itself, and the constant drive towards dumbing it down works counter to that. The slight frisson of danger is part of the package.

MetalSolid

Northloop, I don't quite get what you're trying to say...

Anyways, this tread was started to see if anyone had actually required the services of TC; prehaps people's reservations are preventing them from telling their stories, but it doesn't look like many 996 GT3 owners want/require TC.

MetalSolid

Exactly, it would be like basejumping from the basement window or eating mild vindaloo.

DanH

Hmm well I've only had the back end step out once on the road so far. I was pulling onto a motorway sliproad that came after a traffic light controlled roundabout. The traffic light was bypassed by the sliproad and I was tired so didn't realise and came to a near stop. It then dawned on me so I pulled away with a little too much vigour slightly embarassed at my error. It was a cold day, and my tyres were just above the wear limits. Back end came out a smidge and I drifted at a small angle up the first section of sliproad. Entirely my fault, but no big deal. Still it was a mistake and not something I'd seek to replicate, especially as there was a car quite close behind me.

As an aside I have to confess to being a little surprised at how poor rear end grip was on my Corsa Systems once they were near the wear bars. The replacements were a revelation.

Anyway, surely you don't need traction control or stability control until you can't cope with a situation? We do at least have ABS, which will reign in an oversteer slide, even if ones skills with dialing in opposite lock can't.

GreigM

I am a believer that a good driver doesn't need TC. I'm also a believer that a truly good driver has the humility to understand that no-one can read the road surfaces 100% correctly, especially when coming home late at night, in the dark, when the rain starts and the MPSCs are a bit worn after the track, when you are physically and mentally drained from a full track day, when the truck in front has a puncture in its fuel tank, when the tyre pressures have cooled more than expected but you didn't get out in the rain to correct them, when you're on the slipramp which has a slight curve, when you're in 3rd gear accelerating gently to match the speed of the freeway traffic, when at 2500 rpm with gentle throttle on the gentle bend you touch the slight spot of diesel, when for once in your life it was entirely unexpected......then if the TC stepped in, I would be VERY pleased...

I welcome TC in the GT3 so long as it can be switched off completely for track use, then give some level of safety net for when I am in less certain situations.

DanH

Would you ever turn it off on the road?

I have the humility to know that in some situations it would be a wonderful thing to have, but part of the challenge is the penalty for failure. Should driving a sports car be entirely 100% safe, and if so should we be relying on electronics for it? Part of the problem is that this endless technological march with ever fatter tyres is throwing the baby out with the bath water.

The other problem is whether people lose respect for the forces at play when they think they can lean on the computer or become overly reliant on it. I think before putting my foot down in the GT3. I would contend that less thought might be involved were I in a turbo...

I agree in many respects though. People are fallible, so it comes down to ones appetite for risk. I just thought the GT3 was for those who lived a little more on the edge.

Nordschleife

um, there are a lot of people who talk a good drive. Many of them talk better than the guys I know who drive a good drive. If your job is winning races, you take all the help you can get. The PGA understands this 'drive for show, putt for dough'.