how do you feel about the market for GT3"
12-07-2005, 02:03 PM
#46
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It sure seems true that the Ferrari is a very high-maintenance mistress compared to the Porsche which is more of a reliable fraulein like the girl next door.
A friend who has both drives his Porsche's between his home in Colorado and his home in California. He trucks his Ferrari's. I asked him why and he said "you don't drive a Ferrari that far". Now that says something doesn't it.
One of the guy's I work with bought a 360 Spyder a few months ago. A used car with 4500 miles on it. A timing belt broke and took out one side of the engine's valves to the tune of $16,000, Now that says something as well doesn't it.
I have heard the rumor that the Ferrari F1 gearbox is not good for more than 10,000 miles without a teardown. I think there are too few out there with this mileage to make a determination if there is a pattern.
Do you ever see a Ferrari ad with the mileage over 50,000?
The Ferrari guys seem to be in to having a beautiful garage queen that is an asset they can "flip" and talk about.
Porsche guys actually drive their cars.
A friend who has both drives his Porsche's between his home in Colorado and his home in California. He trucks his Ferrari's. I asked him why and he said "you don't drive a Ferrari that far". Now that says something doesn't it.
One of the guy's I work with bought a 360 Spyder a few months ago. A used car with 4500 miles on it. A timing belt broke and took out one side of the engine's valves to the tune of $16,000, Now that says something as well doesn't it.
I have heard the rumor that the Ferrari F1 gearbox is not good for more than 10,000 miles without a teardown. I think there are too few out there with this mileage to make a determination if there is a pattern.
Do you ever see a Ferrari ad with the mileage over 50,000?
The Ferrari guys seem to be in to having a beautiful garage queen that is an asset they can "flip" and talk about.
Porsche guys actually drive their cars.
12-07-2005, 04:42 PM
#47
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Porsche guys actually drive their cars.
12-07-2005, 05:11 PM
#48
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I think this thread is, to be polite, odd. is the idea that Porsche's don't depreciate? Where did that idea come from? The fact that there are about 1.000 GT3's in North America doesn't make them depreciation proof. Hell, there are only a few hundred GT2's and I took a huge hit when I sold mine (about 75K loss in US$, 100K Canadian).
Neither the GT2 nor the '3' have broad market appeal. They are too hard core for anyone but guys like us. Not that there aren't thousands of hard core guys out there, rather that there seem to be fewer than a thouosand who can afford a $100,000 toy. So, at a high percentage of MRSP there are fewer buyers than cars, hence depreciation.
if you compare the GT3 to alternatives, do you think that BMW M3s hold their value? So where else are you going to buy the level of performance offered by a GT3? The Ferrari 360 CS comes to mind as a close second and it is relatively depreciation resistant as long as you don't drive it much. If you do put 50,000 miles on it, between the cost of maintenance and depreciation you're near par with your GT3.
If a GT3 loses 20 percent of its orignal price after 2 years, I consider it to be one of the better deals going. As Holger said, just enjoy the car.
Neither the GT2 nor the '3' have broad market appeal. They are too hard core for anyone but guys like us. Not that there aren't thousands of hard core guys out there, rather that there seem to be fewer than a thouosand who can afford a $100,000 toy. So, at a high percentage of MRSP there are fewer buyers than cars, hence depreciation.
if you compare the GT3 to alternatives, do you think that BMW M3s hold their value? So where else are you going to buy the level of performance offered by a GT3? The Ferrari 360 CS comes to mind as a close second and it is relatively depreciation resistant as long as you don't drive it much. If you do put 50,000 miles on it, between the cost of maintenance and depreciation you're near par with your GT3.
If a GT3 loses 20 percent of its orignal price after 2 years, I consider it to be one of the better deals going. As Holger said, just enjoy the car.
12-07-2005, 05:12 PM
#49
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If you ad cost of ownership to the F-car, Porsche wins hand down. Anyway, the depreciate as well. Not long ago the 360CS couldn't be found for under $225k, these days you can get a nice one for $175k that's a $50k hit. 04 360 Coupes were on the $180k not long ago, now you can get them for $140k, that's a $40k hit. What about Diablos, Murcielagos, Ford GTs, SL55, SL65, DB7, Vanquish.... They have depreciated so much more than the GT3.
For the ones thinking the 997GT3 will be a quantum leap over the 996GT3, because the 997 is a quantum leap over the 996, we should consider this:
The 997S is a quantum leap over the 996 Carrera2, no doubt. The Carrera 2 uses the floppy chassis. That's why owners of the 996C4S were impressed with the better handling, because they got the stiff chassis. There is too much soft rubber on the 996 Carrera suspension (bushings, strut mounts, etc), wrong gearing, weak brakes, lack of torque, too much understeer, lack of feedback. That's why many 993 owners that have driven the 996 Carrera 2 still prefer the 993. Those areas of improvements on the 996 can be fixed, but the cost is quite high.
Plenty of us have driven the 997S already. The car has been improved a lot compared to the Carrera 2. But you can expend time reading 997S vs. 996GT3 comparisons to realize that the 996GT3 handling is far superior.
A stock GT3 ran the Nuerburgring on 7:49, with the GT3RS at 7:43 and a lightly modified GT3 at 7:41. That's the baseline for a 997GT3 to show how capable it will be.
For the ones thinking the 997GT3 will be a quantum leap over the 996GT3, because the 997 is a quantum leap over the 996, we should consider this:
The 997S is a quantum leap over the 996 Carrera2, no doubt. The Carrera 2 uses the floppy chassis. That's why owners of the 996C4S were impressed with the better handling, because they got the stiff chassis. There is too much soft rubber on the 996 Carrera suspension (bushings, strut mounts, etc), wrong gearing, weak brakes, lack of torque, too much understeer, lack of feedback. That's why many 993 owners that have driven the 996 Carrera 2 still prefer the 993. Those areas of improvements on the 996 can be fixed, but the cost is quite high.
Plenty of us have driven the 997S already. The car has been improved a lot compared to the Carrera 2. But you can expend time reading 997S vs. 996GT3 comparisons to realize that the 996GT3 handling is far superior.
A stock GT3 ran the Nuerburgring on 7:49, with the GT3RS at 7:43 and a lightly modified GT3 at 7:41. That's the baseline for a 997GT3 to show how capable it will be.
12-07-2005, 05:18 PM
#50
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Originally Posted by Bob Rouleau
I think this thread is, to be polite, odd. is the idea that Porsche's don't depreciate? Where did that idea come from? The fact that there are about 1.000 GT3's in North America doesn't make them depreciation proof. Hell, there are only a few hundred GT2's and I took a huge hit when I sold mine (about 75K loss in US$, 100K Canadian).
Neither the GT2 nor the '3' have broad market appeal. They are too hard core for anyone but guys like us. Not that there aren't thousands of hard core guys out there, rather that there seem to be fewer than a thouosand who can afford a $100,000 toy. So, at a high percentage of MRSP there are fewer buyers than cars, hence depreciation.
if you compare the GT3 to alternatives, do you think that BMW M3s hold their value? So where else are you going to buy the level of performance offered by a GT3? The Ferrari 360 CS comes to mind as a close second and it is relatively depreciation resistant as long as you don't drive it much. If you do put 50,000 miles on it, between the cost of maintenance and depreciation you're near par with your GT3.
If a GT3 loses 20 percent of its orignal price after 2 years, I consider it to be one of the better deals going. As Holger said, just enjoy the car.
Neither the GT2 nor the '3' have broad market appeal. They are too hard core for anyone but guys like us. Not that there aren't thousands of hard core guys out there, rather that there seem to be fewer than a thouosand who can afford a $100,000 toy. So, at a high percentage of MRSP there are fewer buyers than cars, hence depreciation.
if you compare the GT3 to alternatives, do you think that BMW M3s hold their value? So where else are you going to buy the level of performance offered by a GT3? The Ferrari 360 CS comes to mind as a close second and it is relatively depreciation resistant as long as you don't drive it much. If you do put 50,000 miles on it, between the cost of maintenance and depreciation you're near par with your GT3.
If a GT3 loses 20 percent of its orignal price after 2 years, I consider it to be one of the better deals going. As Holger said, just enjoy the car.
Just let me know when you get tired of that F430 so I can get it $75k under. Thanks.
12-07-2005, 05:36 PM
#51
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As a mid-engine car fan, I wish Porsche would just stick the GT3 running gear into a Cayman so I wouldn't have to dream about Ferraris while I'm working at my computer 
12-07-2005, 07:17 PM
#53
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Interestingly enough most of GT3 re-sale's have very little mileage. I would expect the low re-sale value is those with extreme track use. But not so. This is a 'you love it or hate it' kind of car. I really hope the value will hold for the long run.
More mods, less the value?
-----------------------------
JoeY
'04 GT3 white
'00 Boxster (for sale)
'04 BMW 325i
'05 Subaru Legacy GT Limited
More mods, less the value?
-----------------------------
JoeY
'04 GT3 white
'00 Boxster (for sale)
'04 BMW 325i
'05 Subaru Legacy GT Limited
12-07-2005, 07:30 PM
#54
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Originally Posted by Joe Yang
More mods, less the value?
Wheels, cages, harnesses, fire extinguishers, extra tires, custom shocks, lightweight body parts, GT3 Recaro seats, custom exhaust, etc... they all have potential buyers on ebay.
12-07-2005, 08:06 PM
#55
Three Wheelin'
Originally Posted by NJ-GT
If you ad cost of ownership to the F-car, Porsche wins hand down. Anyway, the depreciate as well. Not long ago the 360CS couldn't be found for under $225k, these days you can get a nice one for $175k that's a $50k hit. 04 360 Coupes were on the $180k not long ago, now you can get them for $140k, that's a $40k hit. What about Diablos, Murcielagos, Ford GTs, SL55, SL65, DB7, Vanquish.... They have depreciated so much more than the GT3.
For the ones thinking the 997GT3 will be a quantum leap over the 996GT3, because the 997 is a quantum leap over the 996, we should consider this:
The 997S is a quantum leap over the 996 Carrera2, no doubt. The Carrera 2 uses the floppy chassis. That's why owners of the 996C4S were impressed with the better handling, because they got the stiff chassis. There is too much soft rubber on the 996 Carrera suspension (bushings, strut mounts, etc), wrong gearing, weak brakes, lack of torque, too much understeer, lack of feedback. That's why many 993 owners that have driven the 996 Carrera 2 still prefer the 993. Those areas of improvements on the 996 can be fixed, but the cost is quite high.
Plenty of us have driven the 997S already. The car has been improved a lot compared to the Carrera 2. But you can expend time reading 997S vs. 996GT3 comparisons to realize that the 996GT3 handling is far superior.
A stock GT3 ran the Nuerburgring on 7:49, with the GT3RS at 7:43 and a lightly modified GT3 at 7:41. That's the baseline for a 997GT3 to show how capable it will be.
For the ones thinking the 997GT3 will be a quantum leap over the 996GT3, because the 997 is a quantum leap over the 996, we should consider this:
The 997S is a quantum leap over the 996 Carrera2, no doubt. The Carrera 2 uses the floppy chassis. That's why owners of the 996C4S were impressed with the better handling, because they got the stiff chassis. There is too much soft rubber on the 996 Carrera suspension (bushings, strut mounts, etc), wrong gearing, weak brakes, lack of torque, too much understeer, lack of feedback. That's why many 993 owners that have driven the 996 Carrera 2 still prefer the 993. Those areas of improvements on the 996 can be fixed, but the cost is quite high.
Plenty of us have driven the 997S already. The car has been improved a lot compared to the Carrera 2. But you can expend time reading 997S vs. 996GT3 comparisons to realize that the 996GT3 handling is far superior.
A stock GT3 ran the Nuerburgring on 7:49, with the GT3RS at 7:43 and a lightly modified GT3 at 7:41. That's the baseline for a 997GT3 to show how capable it will be.
12-07-2005, 08:35 PM
#56
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Out of the frying pan into the fire!!
Well I sold my GT3!. I loved that car. It was mint and after 2 years and 4 months and 19,000 miles I got $75,000 for it ( Paid over $110,000). That was a pretty big hit. I also believe in using a car. I don't believe in "garage queens".
So you'd think I learned my lesson...right? I go out and buy a 2600 miles Stradale and immediately put 700 miles on it the first two weeks I own it!. But that's what it's all about ...isn't it? If you don't drive it what's the point?
Here's my new beauty which I am sure I will take a bath on when it's time to sell....
So you'd think I learned my lesson...right? I go out and buy a 2600 miles Stradale and immediately put 700 miles on it the first two weeks I own it!. But that's what it's all about ...isn't it? If you don't drive it what's the point?
Here's my new beauty which I am sure I will take a bath on when it's time to sell....
Last edited by LonnieR; 02-12-2013 at 07:40 AM.
12-07-2005, 08:36 PM
#57
Burning Brakes
Originally Posted by LonnieR
Well I sold my GT3!. I loved that car. It was mint and after 2 years and 4 months and 19,000 miles I got $75,000 for it ( Paid over $110,000). That was a pretty big hit. I also believe in using a car. I don't believe in "garage queens".
So you'd think I learned my lesson...right? I go out and buy a 2600 miles Stradale and immediately put 700 miles on it the first two weeks I own it!. But that's what it's all about ...isn't it? If you don't drive it what's the point?
Here's my new beauty which I am sure I will take a bath on when it's time to sell....
So you'd think I learned my lesson...right? I go out and buy a 2600 miles Stradale and immediately put 700 miles on it the first two weeks I own it!. But that's what it's all about ...isn't it? If you don't drive it what's the point?
Here's my new beauty which I am sure I will take a bath on when it's time to sell....
as long as you give us all rides in the new toy!!!
enjoy
12-07-2005, 08:53 PM
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LonnieR lots of Porsche guys moving to Ferrari and I hope to be next with a 430 spider . I have a few friends that have always had Porsches and just got 430's and all say it is a much more fun car to drive and after driving one I must agree .
You took a 35K dollar hit after two years with your Porsche and that is normal these days . That is what I was saying here getting 80+ for a used 996GT3 would be tough . Is the Ferrari more fun to drive ? Are you happy you made the switch ?
After driving my neighbors 430F1 I now know this is the car I would rather own over the next generation TT , and seeing how the 360 and 430 hold their value it is just another added bonus . It does seem to be a trend that many Porsche buyers are moving to the Ferrari platform with the 360 and 430 being a whole new kind of car than Ferrari use to make . I remember seeing your GT#3 I believe it was Yellow right ? beautiful car but the Stradale is in a whole different league .
I see you have a 997GT3 on order should be an incredibale car , to own both the Ferrari and the Porsche is the best of both worlds like you are doing if you can swing it .
You took a 35K dollar hit after two years with your Porsche and that is normal these days . That is what I was saying here getting 80+ for a used 996GT3 would be tough . Is the Ferrari more fun to drive ? Are you happy you made the switch ?
After driving my neighbors 430F1 I now know this is the car I would rather own over the next generation TT , and seeing how the 360 and 430 hold their value it is just another added bonus . It does seem to be a trend that many Porsche buyers are moving to the Ferrari platform with the 360 and 430 being a whole new kind of car than Ferrari use to make . I remember seeing your GT#3 I believe it was Yellow right ? beautiful car but the Stradale is in a whole different league .
I see you have a 997GT3 on order should be an incredibale car , to own both the Ferrari and the Porsche is the best of both worlds like you are doing if you can swing it .
12-07-2005, 10:20 PM
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[QUOTE=Sobe
Is the Ferrari more fun to drive ? Are you happy you made the switch ?
QUOTE]
Hi Sobe,
I'm real glad I switched. I would not have done it for a 360 but the Stradale is a special car. Even if the performance numbers are equal to the GT3, all the other things that gets your blood boiling occurs to a greater degree with it over the Porsche. The sight, sounds and feeling you experience driving this beast makes the change justified ( and the added cost) in my book. If you are just thinking of the dollar to performance value the Porsche makes the most sense. If you value all those visceral feelings then the Ferrari is worth the extra $$$. Life is short and I plan to get as many automotive experiences I can until I can't see the road any more.
Is the Ferrari more fun to drive ? Are you happy you made the switch ?
QUOTE]
Hi Sobe,
I'm real glad I switched. I would not have done it for a 360 but the Stradale is a special car. Even if the performance numbers are equal to the GT3, all the other things that gets your blood boiling occurs to a greater degree with it over the Porsche. The sight, sounds and feeling you experience driving this beast makes the change justified ( and the added cost) in my book. If you are just thinking of the dollar to performance value the Porsche makes the most sense. If you value all those visceral feelings then the Ferrari is worth the extra $$$. Life is short and I plan to get as many automotive experiences I can until I can't see the road any more.