I thought I would start a new thread on this as NJ-GT and I kind of hijacked Cosmo's selling thread:


Any thoughts on how exactly you would get the GT-3 down to 2,300 pounds (short of spending the amount of money needed to buy a Cup car)?

Regarding the cost of maintenance - regarding the engine specifically (the highest cost) a modern Cup requires a rebuild about 75 to 120 hours depending upon many factors including the need for competitiveness. The cost is about $25k to $35k depending upon parts needed and who you use. If a GT3 street was run on the same schedule of races and track use at what point would you think it would need a rebuild?

Power wise the GT3 is competitive with the Cup given a few changes like the SFL and air filter and exhaust - correct?

What's left? Changing the suspension arms and hubs to Cup specs, suspension, wheels and tires, rollcage? This pretty much puts the car at Cup specs right? Or am I missing something?

After that it comes down to how much stuff you can take off or replace with lighter parts.

Another question - the minute I start this project I can kiss goodbye to any warranty work (2 years left) and what becomes of the cars road going status? Do you register it as non-road going? Insure it as a race car? Insure it at all?

-Kevin

 

Tranmission! That's is one pricey item I forgot - in order to be competitive with Cup cars you would need either a Cup tranny or ratio's. Or at least 3rd, 4th, and 5th - right?

 

Kevin as you know I raced my new cup for the first time at Infineon a few weeks ago. It was a 12 car field of GT3 cups including one with a license plate. I went over to his trailer after the race and it was a street GT3 that he gutted and outfitted to Cup specs. He said he probably spent more money than just buying a cup, but then he also did this last year. He ran very well, ahead of me in the middle of the pack turning 1:44-45's. His name is Peter Wong.

BTW, I don't know that you could get this car down to 2,300 lbs. without sacrificing your safety. I don't think it matters anyway since PCA has just raised the minimum weight for GTA (that's R's, RS's, and modified cups) to 2,550 lbs. which is the same as GTC for stock cups.

 

I remember you mentioning this. Any idea on how to get in touch with him?

You're probably right about the money however doing this may solve my emotional issue (although rationally....) and it may be a case of a bird in the hand kind of thing.

After all, I have the car, it's paid for and I think it may be kind of a fun project in a sick sort of way.

Not that what we do is rational by any means but it kind of makes sense to me.

-Kevin

PS: See you this weekend - maybe you can talk me into or out of this lunacy.

 

Kevin I added soemthing to my original post about the weight loss issue.

Peter raced with The Porsche Club out of the bay area (http://www.porscheracingclub.com/). Send Masuo Robinson, their president, a note and I'm sure he''ll put you in touch with Peter.

masuo@ix.netcom.com <masuo@ix.netcom.com>

 

I want to keep my car street driveable. Currently my car is at 2834lbs with 1/8th gas tank. Car stock weight was 3130 lbs with the same fuel load. Every 100 lbs reduced from these cars is the equivalent to a 12Hp increase, with additional benefits on braking and handling. My plan is to reduce around 550lbs from the car.

Next items on my project ($15k):
- CF Hood (5 lbs) -27 lbs
- GT3 Cup Rear deck lid -27 lbs
- braille battery -21 lbs
- 1 piece aluminum wheels (Volk Racing) -30 lbs
- AutoZone bypass pipes -50 lbs
- CF Roof -10 lbs
- Lexan rear and side windows -9lbs
- CF Fenders -22 lbs
- CF Street Doors -44 lbs
- CF Race Mirrors -4lbs
- remove front and rear fender liners -5lbs
- the Ti exhaust increases weight by 30 lbs but I save 12 lbs by removing the cat bypass pipes and the stock muffler mounting brackets. This allows the car to be driven on the streets without a killing noise. +18 lbs

For a dedicated race car, there is a lot more to be done:

- CF Race doors -120 lbs
- CF Rear Quarter panels -66 lbs
- CF Front Bumper -12 lbs
- CF Rear Bumper -7 lbs
- A/C delete -45 lbs
- Replace driver's seat with Recaro SPA and aluminum mounting brackets -9 lbs
- CF Dashboard
- Cup steering wheel
- cup 1-piece windshield wiper
- CF airbox
- remove emission air pump
- remove center console
- remove all interior carpet
- 1 piece magnesium wheels -10lbs vs. Volk Racing wheels
- RSR uprights and wheel carriers (hollow pieces, lighter, and better geometry on the front axle)
- CF third brake light panel

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Transmission:

The gear ratios on the 996 GT3Cup are not ideal for the car. The gear ratios on the 997 GT3Cup are much better based on the engine power curve. The street GT3, 996GT3Cup and 997GT3Cup have similar power curves. 3rd/4th/5th/6th work very well on the stock transmission when using the 8:32 R&P, problem is the first 2 gears. Keeping the stock 3.44:1, installing the 3.15 first gear shaft from the Cup car (good for 57 mph), allows to re-gear 2nd to 6th even better than the 997GT3 Cup.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Engine:

Minor changes needed, such as to remove the A/C unit to reduce parasit load and the gizmo breather valve.

 

Kevin,

Don't Do It! You simply never make out on converting a street car to a "club racer". In the end you will have a car that will be hard to sell and cost you more than buying a Cup car to begin with. Given the Cup market for 2003's to 2005 in the $105K to $130K range and your car worth in the $80K range you will have a net change in cost of $30K - $50K. If you spend that on your car, you will never get it back, even if you make a competitive car out of it.

Club racers are the hardest cars to sell. If you need to do more to your car look at PCA, POC and PCR/NASA rules and figure out what you can do to maximize your car, but stay in PCA B class. That will be the best place to race and the biggest market for buyers if you want to sell later. If that doesn't get it done for you, you need a race car. Buy a race car, it will be cheaper in the long run.

I suggest you don't do anything before Jack's next Willow day. I will have the Cup there and you can see for yourself.

If having a street legal car is important then going the route you are discussing may be a real fun project. it won't be cheap but it would be real fun to have a 2,500 pound GT3 for the street. NJ has given a great list of what it will take to get there. The reality is it will take a lot of money and a lot of time to get there. Why not start there!

Good luck with your quest. Take the plunge and come race a Cup car with us!

JCM

JCM

 

Thanks John and what you are saying makes sense. My direction changes from day to day and really it depends upon what I want to do in the long run - do I ONLY want to race (buying a Cup car makes sense) or do I want a street car for heavy track use and maybe an occasional club race (4 or 5 times a year?) in which case modifiying the GT3 makes sense.

Right now I'm leaning towards the latter but tomorrow it might be different. I really, really don't want to sell the GT3 - this is the first car I've ever envisioned keeping for 10 years or more. Doesn't mean I won't own other street cars (have two other daily drivers now counting my truck) and won't own a race car but either way I'm not concerned about resale on the GT3. I'm either going to sell it now while it's still basically stock or keep it forever.

I'm not sure I could handle Marnye's reaction (my wife) if I was to sell this car now - she loves it as much as I do and is having great fun with it in the STS series.

What a mess huh?

-Kevin

 

The difficult thing in life is choice!

Welcome to the turmoil, and the endless quest for auomotive utopia.

How could you sell the GT3 if your wife really likes it?, that could be the perfect excuse to add another car later..dedicate that one to her..problem solved, now you just have to fight the new car fever.

 

Ruf has a GT3 variant which can be driven on the street or raced, its not cheap, but it will hold its value and be desirable when you want to move on to something else.

R+C

 

Kevin, you and I could be brothers. I am going through the exact same dilemma, though it seems like I may be able to get a club race prepared RS America for under $40K, and keep the GT3 as well. Woo Hoo!

 

Bro,
That sounds like a good plan - I've thought about that route as well, maybe not an RS (although that sounds good) but certainly a lesser priced, older race car.

But still a P car of course.

-Kevin

 

Kevin,

Given Marnye's involvement you need to keep the GT3 or get two cars! Two cars means a two car trailer etc.... Not! To that end I would take your GT3 do all the mods you can, that keep you in the "B" PCA class and don't kick you up to far for POC and PCR. Your car will then be very fast and still be street worthy. You both can enjoy it for a long time, plus it keeps your list of mods pretty short. Lightweight flywheel, shorter 3-5, use current 5th for 6th, upgraded clutch, moton clubsports, full cage (factory or other), race seat, ful fire system, and that about it.

Good luck and hope to see you at Willow.

 

Believe me, she has already placed "dibs" on the GT3. And she WANTS me to get the Cup car (or some race car) so I will pry my sticky hands away from the GT3.

I'm lucky when it comes to support from my wife. Very lucky indeed.

 

Kevin,

You are lucky, so now all you have to do is decide you want to have two cars! Just have to get her to agree that you can only race one at a time, or she may have to drive the GT3 to the track!

Best of both worlds, only hurts in the pocket book!

JCM