Fongster

75 degrees, sunshine and my GT3....

all I can say is....wow...what a car...haha...

I went to Thunderhill today to run a HPDE with unlimitedlaps

First session out, after I got the MPSCs warmed up, I got it and started to drive Thill the way I drive my M3, smooth and slow in fast out...come session one lap one, I pass the flaggin station and I post a 2.09.XX ..I was like..hmm...this car is fast, on my second lap, I was still trying to get a feel of the car, turn1...ok...turn 2...ok..alittle fast, but the car is still stable...hit the apex...and whoo...whoo....
WHOOPSS....I lose my tail and end up leaving the track ...in a big spin..lots of dirt...(thinking cleaning)
go talk to the steward.......goes out, lap a few more...then I spin again on T3..as I exit...ok...another black flag...but hey..this time, I keep the car on the track..no dirt!!
After another session with the steward, I reconisder my driving style and realise this isnt the way to drive the car, drop pressure and get more heat into the tires...

Through out the day, I managed to stay a consistent 2.09s and 2.10s, bested by a 2.07.xx and decideded the following:

The GT3 is an extremely sensitive car(think ex-girlfriend who crys at anything you say wrong)..and this is her..except this one bites your head and anything else important off...
Steering input and throttle reponse is very very fast. If one feels the tail stepping out, an immediate steering input required.
The car does not like wide turns, I had to learn a new line thru Turns 2,3,9. The car likes to hug the turns and slow and steady power feed from there.

I really cant think of anything else more right now as I am pretty tired and beat up...Will post more of a review in a few days

-fong

AW

> The car does not like wide turns

mmm.... what do you mean? It loves wide turns! I believe they key is to master the gas pedal. At the limit, you need to be very smooth or the car snap oversteers really fast.

Have you checked your alignment before the event? I know that my cup car can be completely lunatic with a wrong alignment...


AW

MetalSolid

Yes the GT3 is like the GF, if you're not smooth and assertive with her she'll ditch you in a heartbeat. This is more evident in fast long sweepers "wide turns", as you have to dance with her a little longer.

CodeRed

AW,

Nice mixture of cars! Which is your favorite for the track?

Larry Herman

Fongster, at a guess you were either pinching your turns, or were lifting. You cannot drive this car like your M3. Apex later, feed in the power, and unwind the wheel. If you are running out of track, you are still apexing too early.

AW

Fongster. Here is a video of my cup car at thill. Sadly the engine the mic is weak. The lap time is a 1:57:xx of course, the car is on slicks but maybe you'll find the line interesting although I don't want to claim it is the best one.

The url is http://acweber.com/cars/cup/TH081505/OneLap.wmv please right click and save as.

A.

Larry Herman

Nice video. One thing that is quite clear here is that AW unwinds the steering wheel exiting every corner. Note that on the sweeper he takes a late apex; his line gradually takes him into the apex, and then right out to track out.

Fongster

Larry,

YOu are right, I got some instruction later on in the day and the lines and the way I drive the M3 and Gt3 has to be very very different..I guess with this much power and instant reponse, the GT3 cannot be handled like the M3 which is alot more forgiving...

AW,
Thanks for the video, I'll check it out..are you going to be at NCRC ?

--f

ltcjmramos

Fongster

Good move doing Thill for your first time out with the GT3. Much more forgiving of OTE than other local tracks.

You may recall, I did Laguna Seca first time out. My first 2 runs were ragged getting up to speed with the GT3. Runs 3,4 and 5 were steady improvements with 5 being very clean. I got bit on run 6 going into the Corkscrew. New bumper, fender and radiator were the result.

I ran Thill the next two times out, and my respect for the car was set by my LS experience, and continues to grow each time out. This car demands smmothness, IMO.

AW

Yes. I plan to attend the race group both days.

CodeRed, my favorite track car by far is the GT3 Cup. The Radical is for sale. The elise is a really fun weekend car but requires quite a lot of mods to be really good at the track. The Gt2 is a street queen.

AW

mds

I think the problem is due to the car's relatively large polar moment of inertia. You can see this if you look carefully at a video of a slow corner. At the moment the steering wheel is turned in, the car is slow to react. Sometimes you feel this understeer, sometimes you don't, but it is apparent on the video. Similarly, at the moment you begin unwinding, the car is also slow to react. In effect this is oversteer, the car continues to rotate a moment longer than the steering wheel calls for. Otten you don't feel it, but it is also apparent in the video.

When trying to catch the car, I think these delays can lead to overcontrolling. You tend to add and keep applying a correction until the car is pointed where you want it to go. And then you release the correction. But the car is slow to respond and keeps doing what it was doing, and ends up overshooting. You add opposite correction, but the same thing happens again.

So I think the trick is to anticipate the car and apply and release steering before the car is doing what you want it to do. I wish I new a good way to learn how to do this.

CodeRed

How would you compare the GT3 versus the Cup? I have been thinkiing of Motons, etc, for the 3 but may be it is better just to get a trailer and a used Cup car instead of putting more $$$ into the 3 and also an Elise. How often do you have to rebuild the Cup if you are using it just for fun and not competition?Was the Radical too radical? They seem like a nuisance at the track. A Seven might also be fun. Thx.

CR

AW

Mike, I have definitely felt what you describe when the car was not setup properly, however, with my current setup, there is a very slight understeer in slow corners entry and the oversteer on corner exit is completely controllable with the gas. Sure this is not a radical and there is some inertia, however, it is completely predictable.

When I first got my car it was too low and not aligned properly. The car exposed quite a lot of inertia, body roll and would sometimes snap in the middle of corners. First day, I lost control 5 times (2 spins, 3 saves) It turns out that my car was too low and my rear shock would bottom out on any road bump, causing a 90 deg snap for no apparent reason. It also turns out that my shocks needed a rebuild.

I'm pretty sure that the setup is also key on street gt3s running sport cups. I found out the hard way that in this regard, some shops are much better than others. I now work with Rennwerks which is doing a fabulous job.


AW

Larry Herman

Mike, I respectfully disagree with you. I find my car very responsive for it's 3,000 lb bulk, and AW's cup car can only be even more so. What I think is that the car is very quick, and many drivers are not right on the edge of the car, and so it is they that are slow to respond. Many times too much throttle in a slow turn will cause the car to spin, but if you only realize it when the back is really out of shape, you are too late. I do agree with you that it is the delay of the driver that is the culprit, but not due to the slowness of the car. A 944 has a very large polar moment, and most drivers consider them easy to drive. YMMV.

AW

> How would you compare the GT3 versus the Cup?

I don't know. I don't have any experience with street GT3

> have been thinkiing of Motons, etc, for the 3 but may be it is better just to get a trailer and a used Cup car instead of putting more $$$ into the 3 and also an Elise.

I think this makes sense. Words cannot describe how fun a cup car is. The engine / tranny noise, mixed with how everything feels is really amazing. The only problem is parking that much $$ in a track toy.

> How often do you have to rebuild the Cup if you are using it just for fun and not competition?

I don't know. Everyone appears to have a different opinion on this matter. I got my engine rebuilt before I first started to use my car I now try to monitor the engine and will rebuild at the first sign of wear. I do a mix of track day / races but I try to drive at my limit as often as possible.
My car has a rev limiter above the dash which is setup with a limit which is a bit before the real redline. This is a useful tool to save the engine in my opinion.

> Was the Radical too radical?

Not really. I had a lot of fun with it for a year. However, it is too fast for track days and not really competitive in SCCA

AW