JimStrott

Is the e30 seen as the "real deal" compared to the e36?


Not well versed in BMWs,
Jim

cosmos

Yes.

e30 S14 based engine is as real as it gets for BMW M3's. It was a homolgination for the long dead DTM touring car series. BMW made a few to get them on the street. Huge out cry from the public and BMW decided to make more. The rules where a bit confusing for the USA so BMW thought that they needed to make some for the USA. Car was also a huge success here as well.

Price of the car was a bit high at $32k in 1989, but they did sell every last one. The last one a 1990 car selling in 1992.

The e36 M3 arrived in Europe in 1993, great car. BMW said no way for USA. Reason being is that BMW thought that no one would pay approx $41k for an e36 M3. BMW did have a hard time selling the e30 M3. Huge out cry and actual witting letter campaign convinced BMW that there is a need for e36 M3 for USA.

So BMW comes up with solution.

The e36 USA version has a m50 based s50 engine. It was in essence a bored out version of the 328is, it was a 3.0L. Cheaper engine, so less money for car.

The car looked and handled the same as the Euro version an S50 based engine as well, but the Euro car had six individual throttle bodies and made 40 more HP. Funny thing was, it had almost the same 0-60. BMW geared the car lower. So on paper everyone was happy.

USA e36 M3 came in at about $32k....same price as e30 M3, but $10k less then Euro version would have cost.

Around 1996, only 1 year after the USA version was introduced, but 3 years after the Euro one came out, BMW introduced the Evo model.

The USA car went to 3.2L, no more HP, only about 10 more pnds of TQ. It also went from OBD I to OBD II. The bump in 3.2L was needed in the USA to deal with the emission issue. The Euro car also went to 3.2 and jumped from 280 to 320 hp. It was planned in Europe for the Evo car, coincidence for the USA car.

Car continued till 1998 for sedan 1999 for coupe and 2000 for convertible.

That is e36 M3.

As a side note, this is what I belive PAG/PNA will do if they bring over a 997 GT3.

Bob Rouleau

Cosmos - FWIW so does one of the local dealers here. He is convinced there will be a 997 GT3 next year. That's certainly possible if PAG has decided to extend the 997 model run. Based on good sales it is likely that they have decided to let the 997 run longer. Will the next GT3 be closely related to the race car? Time will tell.

JasonAndreas

Based on past model lifetimes I would expect the 997 to continue on with the last model year coming in 2008.

JasonAndreas

Based on some regulatory filings by PCNA (partially included below) I've changed my mind and I now think the 997 will be around till at least MY2010. And in reading about the volume life cycle requirements of the unique stamping tools used for the bodies-in-white the 997 may have the same length of production (8 years) as the 996, so possibly up until MY2013 (in the USA).




The chart below shows the staggering over time of model introductions for the 996. Assuming consistent sales and production volume we might expect about the same for the 997?

Nordschleife

Regulatory filings? With which regulator has that lot been filed?

R+C

Greg A

That info is not from a regulatory filing.

Click Here

Look at pages 5-6

Greg A

JasonAndreas

sorry, I should have written "comments in response to the Notice of Regulatory Review."

frayed

Cosmos, like me, found his way into the Pcar world through the Roundel and M3s. While cos' post above is accurate, it leaves out one important note:

The dumbed down, US version E36 is in almost every way a better car than the 'real', previous gen E30 M3. As has been shown in racing circles, the E36 is faster around a track and faster in a straight line. It's a far better steet car as well, and it has a superior chassis, and a notably better rear suspension setup. Accordingly, if PAG were to follow BMW's lead, the NA version of the 997 GT3 will be a better performing car than the car it replaces. It may not, however, have the same soul or the same driving experience.

Also, while I'm relatively new to the GT3 circles, until recently (or perhaps still?) there were unsold 04 and 05 cars around. It would seem that after initial demand was met, the remaining cars aged on the lots. Coupled with the fact that margins are reputed to be slim or nonexistant, one cannot be surprised if PAG doesn't bring the 997 GT3 to the US, brings a watered down version, or delays introduction until the end of 997 production as with the 996 (ie, we didn't get the mkI in the US).

Cos, did you get my email? I encourage you to call tomorrow.

Nordschleife

There is a nice bit of fairly well spun spoecial pleading in thast letter. PAGs two major suppliers are Valmet and and VAG, neither one of whiich is 'local' to Zuffenhausen, but never mind, its the thought that counts.

R+C

Austin

Cos-
I think you're really onto something here, the brand and title marketing concept is frightening but the math works. Besides, as Porsche re-enters prototype racing this season in the 900kg class they're going to need more dough! It's all speculation until the action of course, at least 996 Cup Cars are becoming affordable now.

ryce

If Porsche takes the cos route, that will be horrible for the marque and the enthusiasts but it will make our cars far more sought after and valuable over time.

Rolo

Well you have to admit its very smart. There is a small market of guys like us (meaning, just give me a SPORTS CAR) if they come out with a 997 gt3 with 997 like options,...as long as its fast (and it will be) handles (and it will) most will not give a rats *** about the dry sump etc......I will, you will, but most won't.

Larry Herman

Funny that you mention this. I just had lunch with one of my GT3 buddies, and as much as we love our cars, he didn't care one bit what the 997 GT3 had in it. His attitude was "as long as it's faster on the track, dude". You and I are a little more purist than that, but I'm certain there will be enough people who feel the way he does to make a "softer" GT3 a saleable product. Especially if the performance numbers are better.