Holger B

I completely agree. Once you pick up the pace, you'll need to trailbrake to get the car to rotate into the turns. It's very natural after you do it a few times. Rob, you're likely doing it to some degree and may not even realize it.

One other thing to keep an eye on is tire pressures. During my one and only spin, the pressures had really spiked because I didn't think I would push that hard initially and therefore didn't bleed enough air off when cold. I'm still using the PS2's and I like to start them at 31-32 psi when cold and keep them at 38-40 hot. They seem to work really well at those settings.

Larry Herman

Rob, I'm afraid that this is some very scary advice. You cannot take understeer and oversteer out of context, and just attribute it all to weight transfer. And as far as understeering and oversteering not occuring at same time, you obviously have never driven a 914 at racing speed.

At slower speeds, and with lower hp cars you are technically correct. As you trackout, if you are cornering hard, and you need to tighten your line a little, a gentle lift on the throttle will help the nose tuck back in. Too much lift, and you've got oversteer. Conversely, as you turn-in, if the car starts to oversteer (actually over-rotate), it will hookup as soon as you get back on the gas.

With all the power of a GT3 there are many other factors going on here. The car accelerates so hard that if you do not unwind the wheel as you track out, once you hit the maximum slip angle on the rear tires, it will oversteer HARD. Adding more throttle (provided that you don't already have it floored) will only make it worse.

And usually most cars will either understeer or oversteer coming off the corner. Well balanced cars with low polar moments, like 914s can occillate between understeer and oversteer through the corner as each end struggles for grip. And then at the absolute limit, just move sideways! Very interesting cars at 10/10ths.

WULF

Good luck. Have fun.

Earlierapex

Rolo,
Have fun the with the GT3. Don't try to trailbrake until you become very accustomed to the car. It's not that hard, it just takes practice. You do want to be VERY comfortable with your car though as you'll introduce yourself to a whole new element of oversteer...

I like to line up right under the yellow box on the bridge before number 12, keep the car wide to the left and turnin just as your left wheel crosses the solid white line on the extreme left side of the track (past the bump strips). You don't want to take turn 12 early...

-dc

MWM

My first foray in the GT3 was a few weeks back at Barber here in AL. Only trouble I had was in the hairpin; the car had a really nice "set" thru the turn and I overaccelerated without unwinding the steering wheel. Of course my brain thought "if too much throttle causes this quick oversteer, let's lift . . . " WRONG!

Didn't hit anything, and even kept it on the pavement. Whew! Like my first business mentor said to me once, "fail early, often, and cheaply". Amen. I wonder if the instructor had to change underpants??

GT3Bob

G'all! Too much advice here? Being an E46 M3'r last year, and 20 days on track with my GT3 this spring I will offer only two thoughts (OK, maybe 3 or 4) :-)

First, Get a Professional Track alignment. My original car setup was beyond twitchy at 50mph, and there was no such thing as a gentle "lift". Undriveable. God's breathing was too harsh! (I'll send you my good and new specs if you want... info@lappingdays.com)

Second, (hot) 35F (grip)/38R (balance) with PS2's works. (drop 2 psi with Cups.. add a bunch with Pirellis (great tire as well)

THIRD.... It is no where near as scary as the posts above lead us to believe... The car is spectacular IF YOU BE Smooth!!!!!))))

FOURTH... Drop the LAP timer. Learn the car...One step at a time. It is a completely different, and far more rewarding animal, than any car I have ever driven. Remember that a stock GT3 exceeds the limits of many PURE race cars.

In the end, I love the GT3... It can be very well balanced, very predictable, very glued to the road. (straight line vs trail braking comments...this is now getting toward 9/10ths First, work the perfect school line for a while, then ask again after you and car are well balanced. :-)

OH... GET the race seats, DAS bar, F suppression, and harnesses. BE SAFE!.

GT3Bob

GT3 Rob

braking in a straight line..

.. accelerating down straight 150 mph approaching turn..
my view..

prior to reaching turn, brake in a straight line, having completed braking, prior to turn in.. turn in on a balanced throttle..

.. is vegas golf saying that..
accelerating down straight at 150 mph.. you reach turn at 150 mph, then turn at 150 mph, then brake..lol

trail brake clarification.. not a term used in UK..
I assume you mean still braking as car is turning, to create a "yaw" style affect..?

Remember guys, this is Rolos 1st time on track in a GT3, I'm advising to brake in a straight line, so braking is completed before turning in, if you wanna give Schumacher style advice and "trail brake" as novice.. fine..

This is not a "big dick" contest on driving ability.. just some friendly advice

GT3 Rob

Contradiction..

My post was not advocating driving with induced understeer/oversteer.. but to understand the priciple of weight transfer on the vehicle..

Any fool can hit the throttle/brake, but one needs to understand what affect weight transfer has on tyre grip.. because no grip means grass tracking..

My advice is to take a physics lesson, before driving the car..

JS

Enjoy and be safe.

Larry Herman

I understand that you were not "advocating driving with induced understeer/oversteer", and in the GT3 you certainly don't want to do that, but driving a higher power car is so much more than just weight management. I jumped in because I feel that your advice, though correct on it's own, was misleading because there is the power factor involved here that must be mentioned in the same breath. That is why I felt that it was "scary", because it was incomplete. No slam intended.

GT3 Rob

off topic..

2 days ago with muffler bypass pipes..
Brands Hatch GP circuit.. max 105db

vegasgolf98

GT3 Rob - "WTF 150 mph turn in then brake" Where did I day that?

I realize you were just trying to help a novice, but don't pick on me. There are obviously threshold braking turns and trailbraking turns. I am advocating that both techniques should be learned by the novice, not one exclusively over the other. Breath in, but don't breath out? You need both to live and you need both to be on a race track.

I believe a novice should learn to trailbrake a car in slow turns or on a skid pad first (very early on in the eductaion cycle)-not at 150mph (you were probably joking). It is not a hard technique properly taught and once the car is learned -safer.

Ok, really think about this point.. . . . . . Why safer? This technique can and will save your *** if you come into a turn too hot, something that every novice does - now the only technique you have taught them is threshold braking and their goose is cooked!!!! Hopefully you see my point now? If you can't trail brake you should not be driving at speed on the track. I want everyone to be a safer driver, not just a faster driver. Learning the technique of trailbraking makes you only more safe. It is not an advanced skill, just a necessary one. Like accelerator power delivery. Is it so hard to do that? Then why is it so hard to learn to be delicate with the brake pedal. Same thing, different pedal. I am NOT talking about trailbraking to the point of car rotation here (an extreme example), just to slow the car down enough and rebalance the car so the the car can turn and be stable. It's really simple and can be taught and learned quickly.

Philip

Earlierapex

VegasGolf,
I completely disagree. Novice driver's do not need to think of trailbraking as a way of "saving" themselves when they overcook a turn. If you are going too fast and panic, then start using the brakes in a balanced manner? No way.

Trailbraking should be taught to experienced students. Novices don't have the ability to fine tune the brakes in a way to allow trailbraking. Eventually it's a great skill, but the problem is that it allows you to carry even MORE speed into the turn - taking the novice that much closer to the edge. Most novices aren't even very good at heel/toe - which you obviously have to learn before trailbraking...

Novices should learn straight line braking, slow in and fast out. Not brake as late as possible and if you don't have quite enough room in a striaght line you can carry some braking into the turn...

I think that's a bad idea in general- of course their are exceptions.

I would say that taking an earlier apex is a good way to learn how to go faster, but that doesn't mean I teach students that - until they know what they are doing. I would describe trailbraking the same way.

-dc

vegasgolf98

Ok, DC - Skip Barber, Derek Daley and I (among many others) disagree with you. That is what this forum is for. I understand that you and many others believe that this is the safer way, but I don't.

Once again, and for the last time I will restate the position because I don't think people are really listening. Before you go on the track at speed learn all the basic skills at 1/2 speed or on the skid pad. You are saying go on the track without proper skills because if you threshold brake and late apex everything will be fine. Just to be on the track. That is like sending someone out to battle with a loaded gun that has no clue how to aim "just stay down and you should be ok". JMHO and I do respect and understand yours.

Holger B

Rolo, how was it?

Give us some feedback.