clubrcr

I am coming into this thread late. I do not have a GT2 street car, nor do I have a GT3 street car, but I have spent alot of time on the track in a GT3 Cup, 934, 964 Cup, 993 Cup and a GT2 EVO. I think I am qualified to make a comment about a Turbo vs. NA car. In my case, having raced a 700bhp factory Turbo car with "TURBO LAG", I can make this assumption:

I think Porsche has made the newer cars more friendly and easier to drive. I can't say that the 996 GT2 car is not as good as the 996 GT3, but I will say trying to master the art of driving a turbo on the track fast has helped me drive other cars better and smoother and ultimately faster than the people with out that experience. I think it would hard to compare these two cars equally. I do remember a conversation I had with David Murry after he wrote the article for Excellence on tracking the GT2 at Road Atlanta, he said for teh average enthusiast, the GT3 was a better track car, he said not for performance, he said for safety. Driven correctly he said the GT2 is far superior, which it should be, but the big negative was at the limit, The Gt2 would take you there faster and your mistakes would be magnified.

Just my two cents for all you track guys.

RSA333

Thank-you Jim Newman for your usual insight. I have been with David Murry at the Rolex Daytona in the mid-nineties, and have talked with him recently.

Professional drivers, who are experienced in both the Porsche turbos and NA cars will perform better in a GT2. For the rest of us, even at the club racing level, the GT3 is a better choice because we can't drive a GT2 at 100% on the track without getting into trouble.

craigsduc

I hope this point is read by all as it seems to make the most sense about this on going debate. Actually..................there really isn,t a debate at all. In the hands of a highly developed driver................on a GT based racecourse...............the GT2 is capable of faster lap times than a GT3..........period. Dynamics of these two cars alone dictate this. Gt3 owners should relish in the fact that they own an incredible car as claimed by so many that own one. I don,t own one but considered one seriously before I bought the GT2. For me................it is the challenge of mastering a serious car. I,m sure the 3 car is pretty serious too but it just never had the mystique of a 2 car..........to me as well as some serious enthusiasts I discussed it with prior to buying my car. I doubt I will ever master the GT2 but I have no doubt I will be able to extract some good times with the car with track time. I know it will make me a better driver as serious hardware most often does. I like driving machines that are limited by my ability............not theirs. Serious track tools make better drivers.............period. Not that a GT3 would not be a capable and rewarding track car as obviously it is as claimed by so many. There are much fewer GT2,s than GT3,s. They have a better stance, have more power, they have more torque ( which to me is a major major plus ), they look better, and sound good too ( not as good as a GT3 although ). Oh and yes................there is one more thing...................they are more demanding and less forgiving to drive at speed as claimed by those out there that have tracked both...........................good enough for me! IMHO of couse!

MetalSolid

A lot of people choose excess power and torque in way of compensation for driver skill, as it makes them feel fast. A car like the GT2 and these overboosted Turbos allow the average driver (like myself) to become sloppy while still being fast. In a GT2 you can coast through corners, mash the throttle on the straights and still be the fastest guy on track. No, serious track tools don't necessarily make better drivers; they make good drivers faster and average drivers just fast - which isn't the same.

Sun Ra

guys -- we had this conversation 2 years ago. BFD. 2's are 2's and 3's are 3's. gustibus non disputandum. noellie- i dont think you can be fastest at willow coasting thru the corners!!!!!!

PogueMoHone

Based upon my experience, a TT will allow you to be sloppy, but a GT2 will not!

NJ-GT

In my opinion, a GT2 is nothing else that a 2005 911 Turbo S with a body kit, cheap coilovers and a lot of standard features removed. In my opinion the car should be cheaper than a 2005 Turbo S, something like $115k. The only special thing on the GT2 is the number of cars produced. Most of its hardware is available on the 996TT.

An used 996TT with the X50 package (no PCCB for track), GT2 body kit, a real suspension, GT3 steel brakes and a seriuos weight reduction will eat a GT2/GT3 at any racetrack.

I just don't like Turbo/Supercharged cars. I prefer the immediate response of an all motor car with a high rpm redline, such as the S2000, Elise, E46M3, GT3, F360, F430, CGT, etc.

Pete C

Just curious, driven by a Porsche driver named Walter Rohrl, which car ran a faster time at the Ring??
This is beginning to sound like a Mustang/Camaro debate with comments like this!

AW

....In my opinion, a GT2 is nothing else that a 2005 911 Turbo S with a body kit, cheap coilovers and a lot of standard features removed. ....

LOL. Good one.

craigsduc

Your comment where you say a 996tt X50 with the mods mentioned will eat a GT2/GT3 at any racetrack truly shows your ignorance. I trust other Renlisters with any degree of inteligence feel the same way. You really should think about what you post before you do so as it is all many of us have to base an opinion of you by. Based on what you said, you are obviously young and uninformed. Do yourself a favor and think more than you did then before you post again. Sorry but your comment is rediculous. Its better to be silent sometimes and be thought of as a fool than it is to speak out and remove all doubt!!

Bob Rouleau

Uh, guys - let's keep it friendly ok? NJ is entitled to his opinion as are you. In case anyone has forgotten, name calling is a no-no on these forums.

FWIW - one of my pals (now driving a Gt3) used to drive a 996TT with mods as decribed by NJ and he could give me a hard time in my GT2. Faster? No you'd have to get more weight out of the TT and improve the braking, but darn quick. I do agree that the GT2 is overpriced - on the other hand what's news about Porsche's standard philosophy of "get less, go faster, pay more"?

Rolo

Do your abilities exceed the limits of the 3? If so I fully understand your points, if not it seems to make little sense.

Don't take my comments wrong, just trying to understand. If you're a great driver I don't blame you. I'm a decent driver, I doubt I'll ever exceed the limits of the 3, therefor its a great value for me.

I wound not dare argue which is faster. Not doubt the 2 is awesome. Which is more fun would be subjective, and I think given most of our abilities here, a stronger argument can be made for the 3

Looks too are subjective, but I have to say the 2 is stunning, I'm a fan of the widebody look. But I am not a fan of the front ....it got to big a mouth??? if that makes sense.

Anyway, both are great cars. For me if I could afford only one....and thats all I can afford...well obvioulsly?? I could have bought a beautiful 02 2 at Jim Ellis for 138k 1600 mile car with nice options. I think I got a better value on my car...But thats just me

NJ-GT

Don't take it that bad. The intention was not to hurt GT2's owners feelings, it was to show the business model Porsche is running these days, which I don't tolerate.

The comment about the modified 996TT X50 needed some additional explanation:

- Take a 996TT X50 (same Turbos as in the GT2), lightweight wheels 9"/12" on 265/315 MPSC - 275/335 Hoosiers - 275/335 RA-1, GT3 steel brakes with floating rotors or GT2/GT3 PCCB, no sunroof, no sound system, no insulation, no rear seats, Recaro seats, Ti exhaust, ltw flywheel, ltw battery, RS hood, GT2 body kit (saves the extra weight on the stock spoiler), no rear wiper--> anything else to remove/upgrade for a target weight of 3,000 lbs. Install JRZ/Moton shocks on Eibach springs (800lbs front/1000 lbs rear) and monoballs at four wheels, GT2/GT3 sway bars, an aftermarket ECU program (GIAC, TPC, ...), setup the car.

Results:

A car lighter than a GT3 and a GT2, with more power than a GT3 and a GT2. I won't even compare that monster to a GT3.

Compared to a GT2, it should get better acceleration , better braking and better turning. Should that be faster than a GT2 at the track? maybe, but I don't have facts to support that.

The cost of an used 996TTX50 plus the mentioned upgrades is below the cost of an used GT2.

craigsduc

First I want to make it clear although my post was a little firm, I am in no way calling NJ GT a name. I really was referring to his comment and really should not have said more perhaps. If offended, I appologize. I simply felt his comment was far enough out of line that it warranted a recommendation to think before future posting. I too must do this sometimes for I am as capable as the rest of inserting my foot at times. My opinions are simply that..............and I feel there are alot of negative posts regarding GT2,s from people who don,t own one. I do and cannot for the life of me accept it when people claim it would be spanked by a 996tt on a track if some mods are performed as stated. I do not own a 996tt but drove a few including some X 50 cars ( granted they were mostly test drives ) when I was actively deciding on a car to buy. We all know they are an incredible car and are probably one of the best performance deals one can buy used. They have the reputation of being a car that almost anyone can feel heroic in as speed come fairly easy. Too easy for me and thats what prompted me to buy the Gt2. I have never seen a post before where the referenced claim was made and reacted firmly as I thought it was rediculous and still do. If one was to modify a 996tt with elevated pieces such as uniballs and JRZ or Motons with Eibachs as well as removing everything imagineable as stated so its track worthiness compared to a GT2 could be evaluated, wouldn,t it be more proper to bless the GT2 with the same elevated pieces before doing so. I think so! The comparison would need to be done using the same driver with the same modifications under the same conditions completely before any accurate notations could be compiled. Then, the comparison would really be between a GT2 with it,s two wheel drive un assisted platform and the all wheel drive well assisted platform of the 996tt. If this was done, I think the spanking would be done in a different direction. If one was to modify a 996tt to the degree noted, what would you have in the end. I think you would have a car of little value as you would have removed most of the value of the car by bastardizing it, it would still be not as good as a GT2 for track duty, and would not be as good as a non molested 996tt for street use. Yes, you would have less money invested in the car than a GT2 but whats the point? When you go to sell it..................the value of the car would be next to nothing. Not that future value is everything but money was mentioned as a motive so I,m going to include it too. I,m sorry, no offense but it really sounds like a stupid idea. Its the things guys did in High School to great cars ( we all did it right..................but in high school ) and latter looked back in life and realized it was a dumb thing to do. I truly was pretty bad myself! No...............I,m sorry......................I don,t buy it nor do I think many will. I do plan on putting some two way Motons, ( possibly uniballs,) and Eibachs into my car along with some steel brakes as I feel they will improve the potential of the car. I,m not going to strip the car of an interior , radio, A/C etc as it is also a street car and doing so would certainly prove pointless and costly later. If I wanted to strip a car of its street value in hopes of making it truly a great track car, I would simply buy a Cup car, drive it as a cup car, and later sell it as a cup car to another guy that wants a track car. I bought the GT2 as having a track only car simply did not make sense to me. I did want a street legal car as built and designed by Porsche that had more potential than a GT3 or a 996ttX50 for real roadcourse track use ( not some parking lot autocross..........no offense). Sorry, but I made the right choice IMHO. Now if Porsche had built a GT2 with 500 NA hp in two wheel drive, I would probably have gone that route as a turbo just doesn,t sound quite as good and isnt quite as linear........................but I still love it and I think most Gt2 experts out there would too.............if they actually drove one! IMHO of course.

cigarette1

Ahhhhhhhhhhh ....

Time to go shopping

G