craigsduc

I think it is funny it is always the guys that own only GT3,s that try to clip the heals of the GT2. I only own a GT2..................and have no plans on owning a GT3. I know without owning a GT3 that it is a fantastic car no doubt and it is undoubtedly EASIER to drive. I bought the GT2 because it is simply a more challenging car to master..................which I have not yet accomplished for sure. With an accomplished driver....................I mean a truly accomplished driver with credentials, I,m confident the GT2 would deliver faster track times than a GT3 on ANY REAL RACETRACK ROADCOURSE. Short courses like BW, Streets of Willow, runways with cones, etc are simply not racetracks to compare GT cars. They are simply fun couses where a Lotus Elite will probably best them both! In the hands of NON credentialed drivers such as us, comparing potential lap times of these two cars is ridiculous. No offense to GT3 owners of course for if GT2,s did not exist and I had to have a street legal trackable P car, it would certainly be a contender. I drove them and almost bought one before I found my slightly used GT2. I am very interested in how the new Z06 will compare as I have a deposit on one just in case. I have always loved P cars and always will for there certainly is a core involvement with them.........................It ,s just that these Corvettes have always delivered alot for the price and they seem to be much better built now. Time will tell but there will always be a slot in the "barn" for Porsches Only! As for the GT2, I plan on investing some hard earned into suspension upgrades ( uniball replacements, springs, and Moton 2 ways ), a matter cage, different brakes, some nice GT2 CS pieces, and a new Nirvana CD............................and oh yes, alot of seat time. Perhaps someday I can say I learned to drive the car pretty fast and never wrecked the car. It simply looks too good the way it is IMHO of course!

macfly

Craig, you just got to get over yourself, everytime some says anything about the GT2 you throw a hissy fit. I don't see you at the track with it, how can you be thinking you're learning to drive it if you aren't there? You can only learn the ways of these cars at the track, but at the track the GT2 is a very, very hard car to drive.

FACT: Four of the six GT2's I've been at the track with have been traded out for GT3's.
(of the other two one is owned by a GT3 owner & the other a CGT owner.)
FACT: At Porsche's own DE at Barber school the greatest Porsche drivers in the world all say that the GT2 is fantastically fast, but much too hard to drive at that speed, to a man they all prefered the GT3.
FACT: Even a really serious driver who runs a very good track day/DE school here in SoCal has crashed his twice, he really knows how to drive, and drives very fast very well indeed, but his GT2 is now written off.

You have bought an unuaslly fast car, but you can't expect everyone to bow down and say "Yes, it's the best thing there is, it's the best 911 ever." etc, etc when it isn't, it's simply the most powerful, and the most expensive, that's all.

PogueMoHone

Fact: I have a GT2

Fact: I have a GT3

Opinion: The GT2 is a far superior car to the GT3, even at slow speeds, maybe even especially at slow speeds.

NJ-GT

Take a look at the 05' season results. I have to let you know that the Elise driven by SCCA National level drivers is barely keeping up with the GT3 or the Z06. The GT2 is getting spanked by GT3s/Z06s on the same fun courses at National level.

macfly

The GT2 is a far superior car to the GT3, even at slow speeds
Please expand on this, what kind of driving do you do the most with the two cars?
Where do you find the difference most evident?
What makes you feel the 2 is so much superior?
Do you have your own comparative lap times at the circuits you track on for a real world one driver comparison? (assuming you are using the same tires on both cars).

PogueMoHone

"Where do you find the difference most evident?"

Responsiveness!

"What makes you feel the 2 is so much superior?"

Responsiveness!

"Do you have your own comparative lap times at the circuits you track on for a real world one driver comparison? (assuming you are using the same tires on both cars)."

My "real world" is the feeling I have driving both cars, and the tires are the same. I don't engage in "track" activities as most here understand them. Times are of no consequence to me and I don't know them, record them, or care about them.

The GT2 requires more discipline, smoothness and alertness.."nothing concentrates the mind like a good hanging" and is therefore more involving (risky?). I'll leave it to the "speedsters" to argue about the lap times, etc. since it's not a world I am not part of.

All in all things happen faster in a GT2 (and it feels better), whether you're ready or not.

Given the economics of the GT2 versus the GT3 it's easy to understand why people like the GT3 so much...but if affordability were not (unrealistic I know) part of the equation then these boards would read differently with regards to preference. The GT2 is simply more car, but whether it's worth it, affordable (for track purposes), or manageable, that is entirely subjective.

I've said it here before.. "that there are so few GT2s out there and yet, so many opinions about it's inferiority compared to the GT3 strikes me as illogical".

CodeRed

I've had both and track them regularly. The 3 is a LOT more nimble than the 2 end of story. Now they are both great cars, but the 3 is more fun at the track no doubt. If it just for street driving the 2 may get my vote.

macfly

Thanks Colm, great answer. You are indeed right that there are some of us here entirely focused on the track, and I'm one of them, as is CodeRed. Once you do the track thing the road becomes somehow irrelevant as a place to be 'sportif' in these cars.

Your preference and bias are based on your enjoyment, as is ours, so please don't think we are attacking you (Craig, you listening?) or your car, it's just in the playpen we enjoy playing in the GT2 isn't the best toy, that's all. Sorry if my track junkie opinion rubs you guys the wrong way, it isn't meant to, it's just what I see and hear, that's all.

CodeRed

I have shaved four seconds off of my best lap time at WSIR going from the 2 to the 3, that's enough reason for me to have my opinion. I also really like NA cars much more because the power is linear. Thats after having a 993 TT, tuned 996 TT and a GT2. Stradale is next on the menu!

4 Kurves

Wow - the truth of this statement (for me) just hit me straight between the eyes.

I can't even describe how irrelevant driving quickly on the street has become for me in just one short year. You feel it too Andrew!

Mikey

Yeah OK, if you want GT2 response simply drop the weight to 2650lbs (for the same power to weight) and you will have GT2 response, except it will be that much better on corners too.

The big problem with the GT2 is it's tail happy (as in Viper/Z06 tail snap happy) despite the 60% rear bias. If you look at the power curve the instantaneous power change can look like 800hp motor at times, which is great on a straight line but not so great at 140MPH on a corner.

supercup

More Opinions:

I have a GT2 and a GT3 Cup. I considered GT2 or GT3 for some time and came to the conclusion that the "2" was right for me. Since then I have not regretted for a moment owning it and would not consider trading it for a GT3 (even if I briefly did consider a trade for a Turbo S Cab earlier this year, before I came to my senses).

I have driven both at Willow and my best lap time is in the GT2 (1:31versus a 1:34 in Jack's GT3, thanks Jack). Now I am sure I could do a 1:31 in my own GT3 (as I wouldn't have to answer to someone if I went too far), but I am also sure that I could do a 1:29 in the GT2 and will continue to pursue it (by the way that doesn't mean I ever will!).

For me Cort set the bar when he did a 1:28 in 4 Kurves car (GT3), he may be able to do a 1:27 or 1:26 in the GT2 (maybe one day he will in mine). But, the limits of these cars for me is my own ability to make it go fast, not which is faster. The fun of owning them is trying to achieve our best without going over the limit, I think the GT2 offers me a greater challenge and more exillerating experience in this quest, and to date I have enjoyed it.

Regardless when it comes to track work the GT3 Cup is lighter, more responsive, faster, better lap times etc... Doesn't make it better or worse, just better for the track. The GT2 and GT3 are the top of the heap for P cars and we are lucky to own either one.

What I have found with the GT2 is that every time I get in, track or street, I am 100% focused on what I am doing, as I know that it will whip me it I don't respect it. That is the difference for me between the GT2 and the GT3 - the car demands respect and offers greater reward if driven well. And it offers pure excitement every time I step in and go for a drive.

In addition the GT2 is making me a better driver and making me faster in my Cup car. I am forced to concentrate harder and be smoother to make the GT2 go fast. That in turn is transferring into better driving and making me faster in the Cup car as well.

You simply can't approach the limits of these cars on the road. Going to the track is the best way to safely and responsibly push them and yourself to the limits. That does not mean that we cannot enjoy owning and driving them without ever going to the race track, we can and we should.

I vote for the GT2, but I would take a GT3 in heartbeat if all the GT2's had already been crashed!

JCM

PogueMoHone

I agree that the track is the place to enjoy either car, not the street, but not everyone on the track can or should go "***** to the wall". So tracking means different things to different people. now to advance the subject a little further, to a different type of comparison..

A little "connected" birdie told me the other day that there will never be another GT2. Reason: The Cayman is the heir apparent and coming out in a club sport version in 2008, and this car will be developed further for "track" purposes. Once the GT2 is dead, imagine the reputation it will acquire..such is life. Hold on to them!

4 Kurves

JCM - great, well thought out comparison.

Do you suppose that Porsche was trying to achieve a different goal with each car? Seems to me that Porsche came out with the GT3 almost to address the "difficulty" in driving the GT2. I'm just thinking out loud here - it's probably nothing like that, however the extremely high price of the GT2 (without merit in my opinion) also hints that Porsche wanted to keep the GT2 very exclusive while with the GT3 they knew they had a car that the average P car owner could drive fairly close to the limit. Certainly not that way with the GT2.

-Kevin

4carl

Great summary, I turn 1 sec faster in my 2 vs my 3 but you have to remember the bar is set real low for me 151 vs 152 @ ws. Cort turned a 137 in my stock R32 with me on board. That tells you what a differance it makes having someone behind to wheel that knows what there doing!! carl