Nordschleife

I think some people are missing the sheer milage some people do at the ring. This is what leads to their ability to rip off outstanding lap times.
Most of the record times are driven in 2 or 3 laps total, because the driver knows the circuit.

I honestly never expected to hear Americans or women complain something is too big!

R+C

KRA993tt

Mr. C4

It's also amazing to see all the posts by people that I presume have never visited the Nurburgring and the Nordschlife and moreover never driven the track.

The track is a benchmark these days but Larrys comment "A car that is 2 seconds slower at the 'ring is only marginally slower (1/4 second) at a normal (2 minute) track" makes good sense.

Ciao,

Johannes E.

GT3 CS

Carrera Mike

MetalSolid

Is that a new issue of Evo - text too small to read!

Carrera Mike

That's a year old issue of "CAR" magazine from Europe.

Magazine clipping should be big enough now for reading.

frayed

That's a great read.

Rolo

Wish some of the women would have a talk with my wife!....sniff, sniff


I have always thought the ring was the benchmark...but Larry makes a good point

Nordschleife

The Ring IS the benchmark. In this day and age, you cannot be a serious car manufacturer without a garage at the 'Ring. Lordy, Lordy we are even seeing GM's upmarket Geriatric car being let out for a romp there these days. And GM has changed, I remember the first time they brought one of the geri cars there, it lapped in about 45 minutes as they had to keep stopping to let the passengers out for a barf, so nautical was the suspension. Now they can lap without opening the doors or the windows, thats progress.

The 'Ring is like a normal, poorish quality road, its lumpy and bumpy and for the auto companies 20 kilometers there is like 200 kilometers in normal testing.
I have one or two reservations about its use, but these are minor compared with the benefits. The most glaring deficiency is that the brakes don't get a work out at the hands of an experienced driver. The brakes on German cars are OK for most situations but not for normal race tracks and not for the Autobahn if you are in a big fast Benz or Audi or Beemer. I believe this is because of the focus on the 'Ring for testing.

For those of you who find the 'Ring on the short side, there is always the Targa Florio, the Targa Tasmania or the Mille Miglia or the Targa Panamerica - OK some of theses aren't real circuits.....

R+C

Nordschleife

hopefully you are too slow.

R+C

Larry Herman

Ok, ok, I will accept as gospel any comparison at the Ring between cars driven by Walter Rohrl. I still think that the accuracy of times driven by lesser drivers is suspect because of the length and difficulty of the track.

Nordschleife

So how many laps have YOU driven?

If the answer is less than 400, go figure......

I'm not being demeaning, I'm just saying that development driving is serious stuff. ALL the resident development drivers know every bump on the circuit, that is their job. A good party trick is to blindfold a 'Ring pilot and have them recite their way around whilst you play the video (sans sound) of one of their laps, some of them are amazing.

As far as lesser drivers go, how do you define lesser? When you need to dip into the ranks of Industry Pool Drivers, you have the chap who taught Schumi how to drive on Ice, and the living god back in Japan (he is European, as it happens), and .... and ..... and .....

Some of the drivers are bloody awful, but it doesn't stop them doing something useful. Somebody had to get the ABS system to work or the ESP, and perhaps being a dreadful driver was good for those guys. During long distance tests, these guys are great to slip into the mix, you can still set them goals, they are a more accurate accurate reflection of the average customer.

R+C

Larry Herman

On the Nurburgring, zero. On about a dozen tracks here on the East Coast, about 20,000, give or take. I have only been driving & racing on these tracks for 23 years, so what do I know? I give up.

Nordschleife

Larry
Nobody wants you to give up - its just that the 'Ring is outside your terms of reference.
You are not such an old fart that you could not bring it inside your frame of reference. Its a short flight and you might find it an interesting experience. You know, you might enjoy it!

R+C

Larry Herman

Maybe one day I'll get over there to do just that. Can I borrow your car?