That is also true in a different sense concerning the hearing impaired, not the totally deaf. In speech discrimination tests, they can't identify single words, but read them a sentence and they can read it back to you. The human brain can analyze the sentence by context and translate it to your brain, but a single word it can't discriminate. Just a thought.

Speaking of increasing horsepower, there is a guy in Georgia, his company name escapes me (heavy british accent) that will boost your hp to 420 for about 11K. Anyone know who I'm talking about? Finally, did anyone watch the discovery channel last night? There is a show called Top Gear, British guys testing cars on an abandoned harrier jet manufacturing plant (runway included). They test drove a GT3 and were all marveling at her race car attributes. They have I guess what you would call, a mini Nuerburgring, where they test cars for lap times. They have only tested two, same driver for all tests, and it was 3 tenths of a second slower that a Lotus Elise. But the GT3 ran the time on a wet track, very impressive.

 

so the new Z06 did 7:40 huh?! that's...

 

What I have read, is the car that ran that time is a car called a blue devil, a 600 plus hp Z06. No official times yet on the stock Z06. Or any new Z06 for that matter. Should be interesting.

 

I posted a topic about that I think...The PSI420 kit. I am still awaiting some before/after dyno runs. I still don't have answers to some of my questions about it...seems nobody knows yet. Being as the GT3 really makes about 400 hp or so (from dyno runs on stock cars), does the 420 kit just add 20 hp? Or is it based on ther assumption that the stock GT3 has 380 hp? That is why I want to see before and after dynos...I want to SEE the gain, not just have somebody tell me it jumps 40 hp. I could give a crap about what the new hp really is. What I am concerned about is the GAIN. So far.....nobody can answer that..
FYI, that kit is imported.

I belive the guy you are referring to is Neil at Orton. Did I remember correctly? Is Orton the name of his business? I think so... the thread I started got locked as Neil is not a sponsor of THIS forum, and was talking about his kit,e tc, etc. so he got locked out. lol.

 

I have not seen anything where a before and after shows big improvements.

The 997 Cup Car is rated at 400Hp with a non restrictive intake/exhaust, no emissions controls required, it still needs rebuilts every 80 hours.

How come a street GT3 gain so much more power than the latest version of the spec race car? Difficult in my opinion.

That's why my engine is completely stock and my focus on weight reduction.

By the way and back to the topic, the guys a Manthey Racing seem to be way better drivers than the Porsche factory drivers running 5 seconds slower at the ring.

7:49 it's. Stock GT3.

I wonder what a modified transmission, modified suspension, lightweight GT3 could run on the right hands? Obviously better than the 7:41 on the Manthey version of the street car.

 

the lovely gentlemen on the vette sites say the

Z06 7.43 at the Ring!!!! http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show...0&page=2&pp=20

upon evaluation of the tone on that z06 site, there IS a culture gap... the only rennlist guy that's going to fit in in that chest hair and gold chain crew is JACK

 

I think 7:54 is from a European magazine (German I believe although I can't remember the name). It's a real time. It is of interest because first of all, it's a good time, and secondly it's only 2 seconds faster than Rohrl's 7:56 time in a MkI. However, the best way to look at this time when comparing the Mk.II to the Mk.I is to look at the time done by the same driver from that magazine in the Mk.I. This time was a little over 8 minutes. So the Mk.II is at least 6 seconds faster than the Mk.I. With that in mind I'm not surprised that others may get better times than a 7:54 (extreme professionals). Of course anything under 8:10 takes some serious driving.

 

Sport Auto does not have the fastest driver to test the cars, but he is consistent and drives the cars in the same way, so the comparisons are more reliable than most.

However, what we actually need, as well as a standard 'spec driver', are standard spec tyres. Many of the lap time differences people agonise over are more than covered by the different tyres alone.

Whilst lap times at the Nuerburgring are very important, do not ignore the times from Hockenheim, which is a conventional race track, so closer to most of the circuits in the rest of the world.

If you ever meet a Gallardo on R compound rubber with an experienced AWD pilot, look out, faster than a GT2. And if you don't believe me, check out this year's Targa Tasmania, where a Gallardo led until it crashed out on the 3rd/4th day.

R+C

 

Well said.

 

Personally, I feel that lap times at the Nuerburgring are misleading and not of much value because the course is too long, with too many turns to run consistent laps. On shorter courses where the expert driver can run lap after lap with just a few 10ths variation, the difference in times from car to car is truly attributable to the car. And then you can evaluate that course to see if it favors a HP car or a handling car to further refine your results.

 

most politely and vehemently disagree larry, the ring for me is the test, indicates "mountain road" performance and is more telling for my use than a flat track. and perhaps the long lap makes it more life like.

however, i think this guy runs consistent laps among others:

http://www.dgtalpimp.com/m3_gtr_nurburgring.wmv

 

Larry

Thats a big stretch. There are a lot of guys with over 50,000 kilometers on the 'Ring. One of my favorite test drivers refuses to adjust the target lap times when testing in fog, as he says "The circuit hasn't moved".

Remember, published lap times are usually run under pretty good conditions, which is one reason why Porsche, for example, doesn't always publish times as soon as you might expect, the weather has usually not been ideal when they went to set a time.

If you want credibility in the crucial German market, you had better set a good time at the 'Ring. Even US manufacturers, large and small, are beginning to realise this and send cars over.

Most of the test drivers can lap straight out of the box at whatever time you dictate, up to very close to the fastest you can get out of that car. Without exception, the good guys, the ones you employ, are smooth as silk, even at the limit. There are some cowboys but few of them stay around for long.

The cars are within the limits of most of the test drivers, therefore its very easy for them to lap consistently as when things start going pear-shaped they are still a long way from their own limits, and they adjust their speed to match the limits of the vehicle.

There are some criticisms of the 'Ring as a development circuit. It favours power over handling, it does not give the brakes a hard enough work out and its biased towards high speed handling.

There are expert drivers and then there are the Industry Pool drivers who drive the ring as their day job - these guys are very very consistent. Most of them have normal sized heads too.

R+C

 

R+C, both you and Watt raise good points, and maybe the 'ring is a better real world test due to it's length. I can see where it would also reward cars that are easy to find the limit in vs. ones that are potentially faster but harder to drive. I guess you have to take the test in whatever context you want. I certainly would not use it as the basis of race-car evaluation, though. And I feel that the results can be skewed. A car that is 2 seconds slower at the 'ring is only marginally slower (1/4 second) at a normal (2 minute) track. And yet our mental impression is that a 2 second difference is significant at the 'ring, where in actuality it isn't.

 

The 'Ring may be a long track with lots of turns/variables, but it is the benchmak these days.

 

It's amazing to see these different times....cars & drivers..... as much as they are pro's doing there day job.....It's extremely difficult to nail down that many turns perfectly as to get the very best lap times.... that you would want to swear by..... it being the better car. It still alot of fun checking those numbers.

I can see the difference between pro drivers with the same car having different lap times at the ring....they get different lap times with the same car on smaller tracks.... sometimes you just have a great day ....driving at the limit.....but that is still a very very long lap to get right.

So I agree with Larry that seeing a comparison done on a smaller track would be better.