analogmike

Hi,

I am considering a GT3 cup car for PCA GTC and SCCA GT2 class.

Looking for some ballpark numbers for racing expenses for these cars, or how much more than a stock class car it usually costs. This year my race costs were extremely high due to 2 complete engine rebuilds (missed shift and broken crankshaft) so it would have been cheaper to race a GT3, with better competition.

Any feedback appreciated, or leads for a late model or completely upgraded car.

THANKS!

Dbltime

Hello Mike and welcome to Rennlist!

I guess all those stock class and group wins are getting boring ;->

Post this on the racing forum as well.

K964

The Racers Group has several nice GT3 Cups available.

brucegre

Umm, stream of consciousness accounting here (I've been afraid to total the bills so far ).

I ran a 2002 Cup car in three CASC-OR race weekends, and three Mt Tremblant DE's in 2004.

Started the year with an engine rebuild, $25K.
Prepping the car for the start of the year (fluids, pads, install motor and tranny, full nut and bolt of the whole car) $4K
Tires (Dunlops or Pirellis, love the Dunlops when I can get them) $1-1.5K per weekend
Fluids - $100/weekend
Gas - $300-400 per weekend (110 Octane - it's a WC motor)
Replace rear suspension, one wheel, four flat spotted tires, after lower control arm stud broke @ 160 +, $3K
Replace underwear after rear suspension broke ... never mind
Rebuild transmission after three weekends, $4K
Brake pads, rotors - $3K
Front spoiler lips - one per weekend, ~$100 a pop
All the other miscellaneous stuff, maybe $6K.

Watching the guys running against me with trans-am cars tear everything down between races while we checked the oil and drank diet-coke, priceless.

This was all for sprint racing. If you are going to go endurance racing, that's a whole 'nother kettle of fish.

Cheers

brucegre

Oh yeah, and only PMNA can rebuild the motors for now, which they do very, very well.

analogmike

Thanks for the reply.

> Started the year with an engine rebuild, $25K.

I thought they were cheap from PCMA, about $13K?
Maybe WC motor is more.

> Gas - $300-400 per weekend (110 Octane - it's a WC motor)

The factory motor states 98 ROZ unleaded, I think 93 pump gas is fine or mix in a little unleaded racing gas. WC motor must be hotter than factory.

> Watching the guys running against me with trans-am cars tea
> everything down between races while we checked the oil and drank
> diet-coke, priceless.



Thanks!

p.s. will post in Racing too.

supercup

Mike,

If you start with a fresh car (motor and tranny) you should get 65 hours on a motor under sprint racing (e.g. Porsche Club Racing). Porsche recommend rebuilds aftere 30 hours and if doing Grand Am type races that makes sense. PMNA charges about $13K to go through the motor, plus parts. A motor with 60 hours should be $20K or so to go through including in and out of the car.

If you are good to your transmission it should last a long time. I have rebuilt mine at 65 hours, since the motor was out. Its about $1,500 to go through plus parts. The limited slips seem to be a normal replacement item. Figure $2,500 to $4,500 per redo.

In general the cars use up slicks, pads and rotors and not much else. You use up 2 to 3 sets of front for each set of rears. Fronts are $271 each and rears are $164 each. Pads are about $220 for fronts and $290 for rears. If you are hard on brakes you will use up fronts in about 5 or 6 track days.

Slicks are a big expense with Michelins and Dunlops now at close to $1,500 per set. Yokohamas are cheaper, and if bought in bulk (5 sets at a time) they are about 35% cheaper.

Based on my experience it is about $3,000 per weekend to run a cup car at a club race. My regimine includes oil and filter changes after every race and tranny fluid change after every other race. Plus a check out. I use up 1.5 set of slicks per weekend, so you really need 3 sets of wheels. I figured you should allocate about $750 per hour to engine and transmission rebuilds, if you are keeping the car long term and planning rebuilds.

If you buy one, get a 2002 or newer, as the chasis is 33% stiffer then earlier model years. 2003 had updated suspension, bumpers, body etc.. So that is also a nice place. 2004 and 2005's had some other nice updates. Many of the 2002 and 2003 cars have been updated to 2004 spec as far as air intake, adj. shocks etc...

My 993 Cup car is supstantially cheaper to run as it is easier on tires and brakes, your main expense items. For PCA Club racing the 996 Cup class is pretty great with 10-20cars at all large races. I recommend either to you, they just don't break!

JCM

kev

Not to hijack the thread, but could you elaborate on the 993 Cup costs? When I was looking for a 993 Cup, I was told that the 996 is cheaper to run due mostly to the fact that 996 parts were alot less expensive. Also, the 996 engines seem to be more durable then their air-cooled predecessors.

Finally, what year/color is your 993? I can't say that I recognize your initials from the PCA web results.

Thanks.

brucegre

Mike, the WC is the Speedvision World Challenge motor from 2002, it's about 445 HP, 9000 RPM redline, so it is a little more to rebuild. It will run on 98 octane, but all I can get up here is 110 so that's what I run.

Somebody over in racing mentioned that they would rather run a spec miata, and I think that if I just wanted to go racing, that's what I'd do too. But I'm a Porsche addict, and I love everything about the cars and the community, so I'm sticking with a Cup car.

supercup

Kev,

I had a 98 993 Cup until 2003 but have not run it in PCA since I got a 996 Cup in 2002. What I found is it was about $20K (part, labor and in and out) to go through the motor and $3,500 for the tranny, but at 100 hours, versus 65. Even then the motor was still 10% or less leakdown on all cylinders, but it was the end of the year so I went ahead. The rotors and slicks are a bit smaller, and as such are about $50 per cheaper. I used 1 set of slicks per weekend and brake rotors lasted most of the season (8 or 10 events).

But I also found that it never broke, not once in 3 years. I ran the POC 3 hour enduro and we finished in the 6th, even though it was much slower then 9 or 10 cars behind us. I got better milage and had no issues.

I would recommend a 993 Cup to anyone as a grea and fun race car. I ran the car totally stock with all OEM Porsche parts and would recommend that.

By the way in my earlier post I did not mention fuel. You need to run 98 Ron which I believe is about 96 Octane in US speak, and I don't know of anyone who mixes. In addition PMNA has a reprogram for later 996 Cup cars gaining 10 hp or so, but requires 100 octane unleaded, which is sold at all the tracks. Using good gas and changing your oil a lot are the best insurance policies against premature engine wear and any failures.

JCM

supercup

If anyone can tell me how to compress jpeg photos I will post a few of the 993 Cup.

supercup

Don't know if they will show up.

kev

Any image viewer software should be able to do it. I use HP Photosmart, only because it was installed on the computer. www.hp.com/photosmart Follow the link for free image software.

I can compress if you'd like to email to me. Feel free to post some of your 996 too.

GeorgeK

25K an engine rebuild? you guys have a passion I don't have.
I have a factory 944 Turbo Cup that I want to sell for about the price of that engine rebuild...

chris walrod

I would guess about a grand per hour to run modern cup cars.. Wonder if I could buy 15 minutes?