nmex

Why not PCCB Brakes. I had no chice my car had them ( New 05 Speed Yello) when I bought it. Looks like no one likes them or wants them. Why??

Viken

How about doing a search on PCCB brakes on this forum. There has been discussions ad nauseam. Personally, I don't find anything wrong with them.

Bob Rouleau

nmex - because if you use them on the track they wear out even faster than steel ones. Porsche denies warranty coverage if you track the car and new ceramic rotors cost over 8,000 dollars EACH. That's why.

Larry Herman

Viken, you have to take your car out of the garage in order to discover their limitations.

Viken

My car doesn't have the PCCB and I happen to drive it, thank you.

Jack

Sorry, Bob, but your summary is somewhat inaccurate and misleading.

PCCB does last significantly longer than steel even when used on the track (perhaps not long enough for some given their cost) and Porsche does warranty them (maybe not for all owners, but certainly for several people who I know that do/did, in fact, track their PCCB equipped car, including you).

IMHO, PCCB's are not the kiss of death.

BTW, in the spirit of full disclosure, I do not own any Porsches at the present time with PCCB's -- I don't want to be accused of Watt's tactic of "pumping and dumping".

Z06

I had problems with my PCCB brakes and the dealer was quite clear that Porsche (not the dealer)
will not warranty them, no matter what happens to them, they are a wear item.

It should be either they do (warranty) or not, it's no fair for me to hear that some people get special treatment by Porsche or it's dealers.

If i could i would be suing Porsche along with some other unhappy group of PCCB owners.

Bob Rouleau

Sorry Jack, but I resent your statement. Do a search on this forum and learn the truth. Everyone who tracked their PCCB equipped cars hard had premature failure of the rotors. Replacement rotors cost roughly 20 times the price of a steel rotor. I repeat, twenty times!

Please tell me what is misleading about that. By the way the picture in my avatar is my 2002 GT2 which required four new PCCB rotors at a cost of $50,000 dollars. I also refer you to Bruce Anderson'scolumn in Excellence where he reports that Porsche does not recommend PCCB for track use. I can also refer you to two of my fellow instructors who have had to replace the PCCB rotors. See also posts by Richard Bain who is orgainizing a class action suit over PCCB. The ones on his GT3 failed after 2000 miles as I recall.

The steel rotors on my GT3 have endured 23 track days. Some people using steel rotors and the original yellow OEM sport pads (come with the car) have had overheating problems and cracks. Those who use the RS-19 endurance pads seem to have no problems. Note too that PAG has changed the composition of the yellow pads (they are black now).

Rgds,

nmex

??? Well this is alarming. I had never had a problem with my dealer ship and I have bought several cars form them so hope fully this won't be a problem if something comes ups. ( Hope not ) Unfortunately and fortunately I can't track my car any ware in Austin where I leave. ( I can drive it fast late at night and back roads of the lake but thats it.) Hope fully I will be able to take it out to Texas motorranch on the next PCA event. Then again with this warnign I am going to look into a convertion ont the brake system. ...Man just when I thought I had bought the perfect car some thing comes up. To bad Porsche doesn't back all the talk about how BAD *** this PCCB brakes are I wounder if all of this has change since they are putting more and more of this brakes on there new 05 cars as standar options and ofering it as option on the rest ( Hell eaven the Boxter can get them this time a little bit excesive if you ask me almost 20% of the value of the car on Brakes??)

Thanks to every one

Jack

Bob: Please accept my apology -- no offense was intended by my post. It's my belief that the PCCB problem has been overstated and that 996 model cars have a brake cooling problem, whether they have steel or ceramic rotors.

Btw, I have read all of the past Rennlist posts on this subject and Bruce Anderson's comments in Excellence -- all of which appear to based upon the same sources (perhaps an unsuccessful litigant against Porsche?) making the Rennlist posts. Don't we even have someone on this forum soliciting persons to be part of a class action lawsuit against Porsche?

My earlier statement/post was based upon the anecdotal evidence available to me from actual friends/acquaintances -- all five of them have not suffered any PCCB problems with their cars during track usage -- 4 GT2's and 1 GT3. Also, several GT3 friends have needed steel rotors after as little as 1500 track miles on their cars, FWIW.

Rotors are disposable items and clearly steel is cheaper than ceramic to replace when they do "wear out" -- didn't your ceramic rotors go at least 10,000 track miles. I'm aware of "as new" refurbished ceramic rotors available at a price of $4000 -- agreed, that's significantly more that the dealer retail price of $750 for steel rotors. I've been told that the ceramic replacement price will also be falling in the future as more Porsches come equipped with PCCB's.

Bob, I agree that if you're a racer or heavy track user, I'd run the cheapest rotor than can do the job, since they are disposable items (which you may want to replace frequently even before they show signs of a possible catastrophic failure). I guess I disagree with those who believe that PCCB's are junk. That was the primary purpose of my first post. If people want to jump all over me for that statement, so be it.

Again, I apologize for my earlier post since it appears to have greatly offended you -- it was not to be construed, nor was it intended, as a personal attack against you or anyone else.

Regards,

Bob Rouleau

Jack - I too apologise for my *strong* response.

Let's see where we can agree. If the owner is an experienced trackie and uses the brakes hard, PCCB will fail. I can't correlate whether under the same circumstances PCCB rotors or steel rotors would last longer. What we can agree on is that in Canadian dollars PCCB cost $12,750 each. Steel motorsport rotors from Carnewal cost $400 each.

As you pointed out, rotors are a wear item and we expect to replace them. If the ceramic rotors cost 50 percent more than steel ones, nobody would be very upset - but they don't.

Porsche's treatment of warranty claims has been uneven. Some got free replacements some did not. Those that did, got them after protracted negotiation and in these parts it was clear that it was a one shot deal. This resulted in owners paying about $7,000 Canadian dollars to convert to steel rotors.

I believe you are correct in saying that for heavy track use the 996 needs more cooling for the brakes. I notice that the 997 has more ducting to the rotors. This supports your hypothesis.

I did indeed manage to keep my PCCB alive longer than most. I babied them and changed pads for every event. By the way, using new pads for every DE does seem to prolong their life - thicker pads are a better heat sink. I also spent something like $5,000 Can. on pads during a season - that's silly and much more expensive that replacing steel rotors and pads less frequently.

I think we can agree that if the driver tracks his car only occasionally and does not use the brakes hard the PCCB work fine. The track you drive is also a factor.

My view is that the 996 PCCB affair was an "oops" by Porsche and they were not up to their usual standard in dealing with it. Cars with PCCB have a lower resale value because prospective owners usually figure they will have to spend US $ 5,000 to convert to steel.

Rgds,

FixedWing

The percentage of people who suffer this problem is really very small. Most people, including many who track their cars, will be ok. It is just a few. So when you say that you have four friends who have had no problems I'm not surprised.

For what it is worth, I'm one of a very few who have put lots of distance on ceramic brakes -- a total of 70,000 mostly street km on two sets of front rotors and one set of rear rotors. Most GT2's and GT3's have covered far less distance than this. My personal opinion is that lots of heat cycling is also causing problems. But since I'm about the only one that has experienced their failure on the street this doesn't exactly make a trend.

Something that no one has pointed out in this thread is that the latest 997 system is claimed to be new and improved. So the problems of the past might be over? Only time will tell.

Stephen

Sun Ra

actually,

i could use a set of pccb rotors and calipers if anyone doenst want them to save a few # on the gt3!!! all 11,000 of you please call asap.

if you value the weight saved, they're ok -- if you religiously cool down and keep the holes clean. and you could add bigger cooling ducts.... if you track as much as Bob, they're not so appropriate

i sure don't want to pay for the rotors tho'

nmex

So here is a new one for you guys. I fronted my sales guy in Austin about this issue and he told me that all of this is accusations about the PCCB are miss leading and in some way false. Here is his explanation :
1) The pads that the car comes from the factory are not design to track the car and will over heat over heavy use and will disintegrate causing the rivets that hold the pads to destroy the rotors.
2) Porsche offers 2 more sets pads a track compound and a MILD HARD compound ( this is first time I hear of this compound ) and as long as you change pads before tracking the car is all ok.
3) So my question to him was if I buy this Pads from the dealer ship and I track the car with them and the rotors crack or get damage know what????
His answer was " Bring the car in and as long as the odometer doesn't say 100,000 on it we will replace them under warranty. ( I guess this base on publicity that the rotors are good for 100,000 miles )

Has any one heard of this before????

I have to add my dealer ship is very PRO RACE your car! Roger Bessly's son (dealer ship owner) races professionally and his son's race car is often at the dealer ship for work. As a mater of fact my Boxter had the Unichip and full Race headers, 100 cell headers and exhaust and they never even try to say that the car had a voided warranty.