RS Suspension
11-08-2004, 10:08 PM
#16
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You can buy better remote-reservoir dampers with full adjustability and you can go with Cupcar uprights and aftermarket links.
Please enlighten us, what shocks, what links, how do they fit, what are the gains?
And, most importantly, as I keep asking, is it worth the $$$?
Please enlighten us, what shocks, what links, how do they fit, what are the gains?
And, most importantly, as I keep asking, is it worth the $$$?
11-08-2004, 10:22 PM
#17
Well, I can't provide too much enlightenment except of the second-hand variety. But I would think that a suspension using Moton or JRZ Doubles, Eibach ERS springs, custom swaybars, and ERP links would cost less than $7k and would be basically a pro-race suspension. Would it have the terrific, supple ride quality of the current GT3? No, but it would be a pretty formidable track suspension. (I'm going to drive mine stock for awhile to get comfy with it... )
Like I said, I think the clutch/flywheel swap is a no-brainer, budget permitting. After that I think the law of diminishing returns comes into play. Also, we're dealing with a 3,000-lb. car here, and that is way porky for a track car. I know of at least one GT3 pilot on the East coast who is bailing after a lot of mods for the lighter, more nimble, razor-sharp feel of a 993 RS or Cup. I just got out of a Cup-style clone so I'm not going that route, but it's undeniable that the GT3 is a lot of metal to be slinging around the circuit and that some of the feedback could be a little sharper. There just generally seems to be too much rubber in the rear suspension, and the off-throttle movement is going to take some getting used-to.
I love the GT3 and am happily modding the Hell out of it, just a general observation...
Lee in D.C. (doing the chromoly RS-style cage as we speak... )
Like I said, I think the clutch/flywheel swap is a no-brainer, budget permitting. After that I think the law of diminishing returns comes into play. Also, we're dealing with a 3,000-lb. car here, and that is way porky for a track car. I know of at least one GT3 pilot on the East coast who is bailing after a lot of mods for the lighter, more nimble, razor-sharp feel of a 993 RS or Cup. I just got out of a Cup-style clone so I'm not going that route, but it's undeniable that the GT3 is a lot of metal to be slinging around the circuit and that some of the feedback could be a little sharper. There just generally seems to be too much rubber in the rear suspension, and the off-throttle movement is going to take some getting used-to.
I love the GT3 and am happily modding the Hell out of it, just a general observation...
Lee in D.C. (doing the chromoly RS-style cage as we speak... )
11-08-2004, 10:29 PM
#18
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who is bailing after a lot of mods
What mods, do you know?
I agree with you about the weight, but I am at a loss for what do to loose enough to make a difference, and I do like the car as a whole. (Stepping from a Radical into it at Willow made my GT3 feel like a Cayanne!)
I'd love to loose 500 lbs, remian quiet, smog legal, and basically intact. I'd also consider upgrading the suspension, but not until those of you with more experience than me at modding cars have figured out the very best set up! Your JRZ + set up sounds good, will you go that way?
What mods, do you know?
I agree with you about the weight, but I am at a loss for what do to loose enough to make a difference, and I do like the car as a whole. (Stepping from a Radical into it at Willow made my GT3 feel like a Cayanne!)
I'd love to loose 500 lbs, remian quiet, smog legal, and basically intact. I'd also consider upgrading the suspension, but not until those of you with more experience than me at modding cars have figured out the very best set up! Your JRZ + set up sounds good, will you go that way?
11-08-2004, 10:38 PM
#19
Mac-man, I'd rather not ID this particular GT3 owner. He's in the Zone of Privacy, where he shall remain.
You'll never save 500 lbs. unless you replace every panel with carbon fiber, so I would think of just going with the lightest wheels you can buy, carbon-kevlar race seats, removing interior junk you don't need (CD player, the obnoxious "bang it with your elbow" center console, some of the goofy protruding side-door panel gizmos, the current battery, the primary mufflers (30 lbs.!), swapping out the hood for a carbon-fiber one, etc., etc.
I had ProTrac triple-adjustables (similar to JRZ/Moton), ERP links and Motorsport swaybars on my 993 RSCS, will probably gravitate to something along those lines next year unless I am struck by lightning, suddenly wise up, or both...
Lee in D.C.
You'll never save 500 lbs. unless you replace every panel with carbon fiber, so I would think of just going with the lightest wheels you can buy, carbon-kevlar race seats, removing interior junk you don't need (CD player, the obnoxious "bang it with your elbow" center console, some of the goofy protruding side-door panel gizmos, the current battery, the primary mufflers (30 lbs.!), swapping out the hood for a carbon-fiber one, etc., etc.
I had ProTrac triple-adjustables (similar to JRZ/Moton), ERP links and Motorsport swaybars on my 993 RSCS, will probably gravitate to something along those lines next year unless I am struck by lightning, suddenly wise up, or both...
Lee in D.C.
11-09-2004, 02:16 AM
#20
Racer
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JEEZ, it is a safe-street legal car that you can take to the track and have fun. If you are going to do all those mods, just buy a real track car. You won't be satisfied if you don't and just waste a lot of money in the process. Have two cars and be done with it.
11-09-2004, 01:06 PM
#21
Rennlist Member
I note that the Cup and street GT3 share the SAME suspension uprights front and rear.
Only the GT3 RS and the 996 RSR have the trick, hollow cast uprights with the moved suspension mounting points.
The only trick used on the Cup compared to the street GT3 is the rear lower control arm eliminates the rubber in it's central pivot point with a metal sherical bearing.
The trick set up would be the GT3 RS uprights with the Cup rear lower control arm added to the Moton or JRZ spring shock set up as you wish.
Only the GT3 RS and the 996 RSR have the trick, hollow cast uprights with the moved suspension mounting points.
The only trick used on the Cup compared to the street GT3 is the rear lower control arm eliminates the rubber in it's central pivot point with a metal sherical bearing.
The trick set up would be the GT3 RS uprights with the Cup rear lower control arm added to the Moton or JRZ spring shock set up as you wish.
11-09-2004, 02:33 PM
#22
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The trick set up would be the GT3 RS uprights with the Cup rear lower control arm added to the Moton or JRZ spring shock set up as you wish.
Now that sounds like the real way ahead, hopefully someone will be the valiant pathfinder for those of us less confident about modding our cars, and we can find out if the difference is really worth the $$.
Now that sounds like the real way ahead, hopefully someone will be the valiant pathfinder for those of us less confident about modding our cars, and we can find out if the difference is really worth the $$.
11-09-2004, 03:39 PM
#23
It's not that simple, unfortunately. You would have to swap out all of the rear upper and lower control arms to approximate the RS feel; you would only keep the wishbone-shaped piece. The cost is very high, and once you did the rears, you would pretty much have to do the fronts as well. Very slippery slope... Some people are apparently buying individual Motorsport links and replacing the rear suspension, piece by costly piece. Not a great idea if you consider the cost of a four-wheel alignment every time you mess with the suspension.
Lee in D.C.
Lee in D.C.
11-09-2004, 05:36 PM
#25
Rennlist Member
Looking at the parts books I find that all the control arm part numbers for the GT3 RS EXCEPT the rear lower control arm are the same as normal GT3, they don't ALL have to be changed.
For the rear lower control arm, you can choose either the Normal GT3 part, the Cup part or the RS part. The normal GT3 uses a non adjustalble part, the Cup uses an adjustable part with a threaded spherical bearing to eliminate the rubber, the GT3 RS uses the same parts as the normal GT3 does in the front lower control arm also on the rear lower control arm.
For the rear lower control arm, you can choose either the Normal GT3 part, the Cup part or the RS part. The normal GT3 uses a non adjustalble part, the Cup uses an adjustable part with a threaded spherical bearing to eliminate the rubber, the GT3 RS uses the same parts as the normal GT3 does in the front lower control arm also on the rear lower control arm.
11-09-2004, 05:42 PM
#26
Nordschleife Master
Seems to me that you really have to be a pretty top notch driver to exceed what the stock GT3 suspension can deliver. While you may be a bit faster w/ an RS setup or even an adjustable dampening system like Moton, the law of diminishing returns certainly applies in this case. That is not to say I wouldn't want Moton's or JRZ's down the road once I proved myself on the track and tracking was a frequent occurrence. Sadly for me, tracks are quite a cruise.
From an aesthetic viewpoint, those Moton reservoirs certainly look cool strapped to the roll bar. :-)
From an aesthetic viewpoint, those Moton reservoirs certainly look cool strapped to the roll bar. :-)
11-09-2004, 05:42 PM
#27
The "all" ref in my post was misleading; if you read the rest of the message I go on to say that you should swap out two of the three major components. It's definitely a project for the Big Checkbook crowd-- you know, folks who want $8,000 wheels, a $5,000 exhaust-- or a 3,000-lb. Cupcar that costs way more than a factory Cupcar 
Lee in D.C.
Lee in D.C.
11-09-2004, 06:58 PM
#28
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That counts me out!
If the whole thing could be done for around 6-9 and it was a proven super plus upgrade I might consider it, but I'm not wasting time or $$ when I know I'm around 10 seconds of the 'serious pace' at most tracks.
If the whole thing could be done for around 6-9 and it was a proven super plus upgrade I might consider it, but I'm not wasting time or $$ when I know I'm around 10 seconds of the 'serious pace' at most tracks.
11-09-2004, 08:30 PM
#29
Rennlist Member
I just did some digging around. Gert sells the whole kit for $8135 at todays exchange rates.
Presumably this is for the 4 wheel carriers, 4 shocks, 2 front springs and the rear side members and the rear lower control arms plus associated wheel bearing hardware, bolts, stab bar drop links, etc. I don't know if he includes a whole new shock and rear spring or just the RS shock and expects one to reuse their rear spring and hardware.
As I have posted before, I think the main elements of the kit are the wheel carriers, shocks and front springs. The side members and rear lower control arms are just to allow more negative camber in the rear and could be eliminated.
Thought I'd call my local dealer and see about the parts and some are available in the USA believe it or not. Prices are:
Front
RS wheel carrier 996.341.157.92 & 996.341.158.92 L&R $541.71
RS bearing plate 996.341.661.90 X4 used front and rear $ 46.72
Bolts 999.217.042.09 8mmX35mm X 24 used front and rear for above.
RS speed sensor protection 996.606.235.91 & 996.606.236.91 L&R $18.77
RS ABS cable mount 996.341.321.71 & 996.341.322.71 L&R $25.12
RS shock 996.343.041.91 X2 $310.90
12mm bolts 900.378.138.09 X 4
12mm nut 999.084.445.09 X 4
RS drop link 996.343.070.93 X2 $92.91
RS spring 996.343.531.97 X2
Rear
RS wheel carrier 996.331.111.90 & 996.331.112.90 L&R $607.25
RS shock 996.333.051.97 X2 $325.79
RS side carrier 996.331.051.92 & 996.331.052.92 L&R
RS lower control arm outer half 996.341.121.90 & 996.341.122.90 L&R $172.45
RS lower control arm bearing 996.341.441.90 X2
M8 nuts 900.076.025.02 X4
Washers 999.025.269.02 X4
"L&R" = Left and right
"X2,X4,X^N"= quantity 2, quantity 4, etc
Prices at USA dealer
Double check for typos in the part numbers, the dealer has them in PET listed in the model column as M004
The RS parts were added to the USA system presumably because somebody ordered them along the way. Interesting the front spring, and rear side members have not been ordered as yet, so the RS side carriers were not listed; the normal GT3 side members are $319.50.
Presumably this is for the 4 wheel carriers, 4 shocks, 2 front springs and the rear side members and the rear lower control arms plus associated wheel bearing hardware, bolts, stab bar drop links, etc. I don't know if he includes a whole new shock and rear spring or just the RS shock and expects one to reuse their rear spring and hardware.
As I have posted before, I think the main elements of the kit are the wheel carriers, shocks and front springs. The side members and rear lower control arms are just to allow more negative camber in the rear and could be eliminated.
Thought I'd call my local dealer and see about the parts and some are available in the USA believe it or not. Prices are:
Front
RS wheel carrier 996.341.157.92 & 996.341.158.92 L&R $541.71
RS bearing plate 996.341.661.90 X4 used front and rear $ 46.72
Bolts 999.217.042.09 8mmX35mm X 24 used front and rear for above.
RS speed sensor protection 996.606.235.91 & 996.606.236.91 L&R $18.77
RS ABS cable mount 996.341.321.71 & 996.341.322.71 L&R $25.12
RS shock 996.343.041.91 X2 $310.90
12mm bolts 900.378.138.09 X 4
12mm nut 999.084.445.09 X 4
RS drop link 996.343.070.93 X2 $92.91
RS spring 996.343.531.97 X2
Rear
RS wheel carrier 996.331.111.90 & 996.331.112.90 L&R $607.25
RS shock 996.333.051.97 X2 $325.79
RS side carrier 996.331.051.92 & 996.331.052.92 L&R
RS lower control arm outer half 996.341.121.90 & 996.341.122.90 L&R $172.45
RS lower control arm bearing 996.341.441.90 X2
M8 nuts 900.076.025.02 X4
Washers 999.025.269.02 X4
"L&R" = Left and right
"X2,X4,X^N"= quantity 2, quantity 4, etc
Prices at USA dealer
Double check for typos in the part numbers, the dealer has them in PET listed in the model column as M004
The RS parts were added to the USA system presumably because somebody ordered them along the way. Interesting the front spring, and rear side members have not been ordered as yet, so the RS side carriers were not listed; the normal GT3 side members are $319.50.
Last edited by Cupcar; 11-11-2004 at 01:43 AM.