That doesn't compute. Acceleration is a function of weight, horsepower, and drag coeficient (top speed is a function of horsepower and drag coeficient only). Since the GT3 is lighter, virtually the same in horsepower (atleast on the dyno), and has if anything a slightly better drag coeficient this doesn't make sense. At what speed are we talking about here?

 

thanks noony. yup - that's me. still a moron

i like the idea of a GT2 - i don't think the pricing is reasonable. at those numbers i'll just swallow hard and buy a 360CS. and i'm sick to death of turbo lag.

doody.

 

Like I said before, the TT has a lot more torque and a broader torque band than the GT3... thus at higher speeds the turbo should have an advantage. You will notice in acceleration tests that 0-60 times are within a few tenths of each other. As the speed increases the times will get further apart. So from 0-60mph the time difference is minimal... from 0-120 the time difference will be larger.

My $.02

 

There is virtually NO difference from 0-120 though. The 1/4 miles are nearly identical in every test and there is as much variance between two GT3 tests (due to differing conditions) as there is between any GT3 vs Turbo test. And that's considering the launch advantage of the turbo. If there is going to be an advantage for the turbo it's going to be in the launch but only if you're willing to sacrifice your clutch.

 

A GT2 will eat the 360 CS alive for less money and with much better reliability and no "rape you in the ***" "scheduled maintenace" courtessey of Ferrari.

Turbo lag should be a non issue since the car is a twin turbo. I know it is in a regular 996 TT so I would imagine it would be in an GT2.

 

BrianPA, Willow is not like most road courses made up of basically two big fast straights which together equal about 2/3 of the whole tracks lengths. You enter one (from turn 6) at around 70mph, and the other (from turn 9) at about 95mph, so those are the speeds the 'drag races' are starting from.

Regardless of what you you may compute all I can tell you is what happens is what happens.

 

Mac... I'd guess those 996 TT's are not stock. They probably have the boost adjusted so are pushing more HP. That is why they pull away.

You say you can gain ground in from Turn 1 to turn 6. That is good. Turn 9 is tough, but you should alble to take it much quicker with more track time and that should be edge you have vs TT's.

Also to get a good lap time you need get a goo run through turn 5 (left just after the top of the hill). I have been able to get my car through turn 5 well and then can carry all that momentum to turn 9 where I scrub some speed. I have made a number of passes in Turn 8 & 9 from good run through 5. For my the next spot to get is turn 9. If I can get turn 9 and loose less speed I can then carry all that to turn 1.

My guess is that if you can get tun 5 and turn 9 just right you can gain on those poorly driven TT's.

95 through 9? are you running Street tires or R-tires?


Other thing to consider is this.

How many RPM at 70 and 95 mph? I'd bet those TT's have more HP & Torque at those points unless you are up in sweet spot of the GT3 rev band.

 

can you please further define "eat...alive"?

i've owned two 996s (a C2 Cab and a TT) and two ferraris (a 355 and 550) and my experience isn't that porsches are way more reliable than ferraris - about the same, actually. that's my experience. there are guys on this board who've had 360s and have had zero problems with them - much better than their experiences with their TTs and GT2s, for example. NOT saying they're perfect - they sure ain't - but that historical gap has been closing for some time.

as for the a$$-raping maintenance (and no argument with you on that one!), well, the trick is to not keep them past the warranty .

i thought it was an issue in my TT. that's why i haven't looked at GT2s. is there no turbo lag in a GT2? and it's not just lag issues - it's the wild non-linearity of the power curves that IMO you only really get with normally aspirated engines - albeit without that power boost - it's a tradeoff.

doody.

 

My guess is that if you can get tun 5 and turn 9 just right you can gain on those poorly driven TT's. that's what I thought too, but every time I'd crest 6 they'd already be down into 8-9, and even if I can get thry 9 quicker as I exit 9 I can see them pulling away into 1. Once I get into 1 I can hold and gain on them till 5/6, but as soon as they're over the crest they've pulled out another 10 car lengths. I think they are hold my speed (120-5) thru 8, I know I'm faster thru 9, but still they're amost half way to 1 under full boost at the point.

95 through 9? are you running Street tires or R-tires? MPSC with full -2.5 camber all round

Other thing to consider is this. How many RPM at 70 and 95 mph? I'd bet those TT's have more HP & Torque at those points unless you are up in sweet spot of the GT3 rev band. I'm sure of it, but it I'm keeping my car between 5-7.5 rpm most of the way.

 

The GT2 is an awesome car. I was there racing around with those turbos and I can gaurentee you that they chipped. I was actually faster through some of the turns, but I couldn't pull on them at all on the straights in my stock GT2 which is unusual to say the least. The reality is we had an absolute blast for about twenty laps until they pulled in off the track. The was the most fun I have had in awhile. Turbos are fun too they just don't givre the same level of feedback.

 

Well mac... if CodeRed in the GT2 could not pull them down the straights they probalby are juiced heavily.

How much are you slowing through 5? Slow too much and it will kill your speed. Are you taking 6 flat out or waiting till after the crest to put the power down.

Seems funny, but vs these guys you have the momentum car and they have the power car. I have learn a few things about momentum driving a low hp car and you can make up alot of ground, but if you are say 100 hp down. It will be tough to catch-up even if you drive the **** out of the car through 5, 6 and 9.

 

I am considering chipping the GT2 since I can get it done for free (business relationship) would you do it? I kinda feel like the car could be just a tad quicker coming on to the straights. i hear that 600 Hp is easy, but I worry about the drive train and engine over time. Porsche does seem to over engineer everything by 50%, plus all the new cars will soon have 500 Hp more then the GT2. thoughts?

 

Maybe that's an over statement but since the GT3 can basically match the CS on anything it can dish out I can only imagine that the more powerful and faster GT2 would very decisively beat the CS in any objective performance measure.

How many miles did you put on your Ferraris and how many on your Porsches? I don't know about the hearsay about "other guys TT's and GT2's" with "way more problems" than the "zero problem 360s" but I do know I have never even seen a Ferrari with more than 20k on it. Even seeing one in the teens is rare.

That's not the trick either. Porsche has a 4 year 50,000 mile warranty. Basically the only maintenance required during the first 50k is brake pads, oil changes, filters, things like that. In other words things you would do on a chevy cavalier.

Ferrari has a 2 year unlimited mileage warranty but really that's a joke because if you don't do all their scheduled maintenance at their dealerships at their prices the warranty is void. From what I've seen a 30,000 mile service on a 360 (which incidentally is supposed to be better than its predecessors in terms of maintenance) will run you $3000-7000 depending on who you talk to. I'm told they get you for upwards of $800 for an oil change as well and if you try to do an oil change yourself your warranty is also void. There's a 15k service that also costs a chunk of change. I remember recently reading the boastings of some Ferrari 360 spyder owner on one of these boards about the wonderful resale value of his 360 and how he could sell it for $240,000 but only paid $200,000 and how really that was a better value than those quick depreciating Porsches. Maybe if you like to use your cars a showpiece in your museum but there is no way anyone is getting over sticker for a Ferrari with 30k miles on it. What matters (or atleast what ought to matter) to a sports car driver is performance level and total cost of ownership per mile. Ferraris may have great resale if you don't drive them but if you do you'll not only get raped on depreciation but also that wonderful resale value goes right out the window.

Ferraris look good and sound good but I don't understand why so many people stand in line to support a company that screws their customers so badly. It's totally beyond me.

I considered a 360 but given the above conclusions there is just no way to justify it when a Porsche of equal caliber costs so much less to buy and then to actually operate and maintain. Driving a 15k mile 355 that rattled like a rat trap didn't help make the case either. Was told by others more familiar with the marquee that that's par for the course with a "high" (lol) mileage Ferrari. Beyond the looks I'm totally unimpressed with the product.


When I drove the TT I didn't perceive it to have noticable turbo lag but I suppose others might have a different opinion. When I think of turbo lag I think of a 930, it's like an on/off switch in that.

 

I think the one big advantage of TT for people who can't even hit the apexes on the tracks is the PSM. I never drive with it on, and the back end came out four separate times at the new Vegas bullring.

Now, contrast that to my nameless instructor buddy who wanted to see what the PSM could do, well, we were both amazed to say the least. We intentionally went into turn 6 at Sears Point way, way the hell too hot with the PSM on, and you know what? The car basically drove itself down 6 without any pucker factor.

I know for a fact that with PSM off, doing that same thing at turn 6, you are in a world of doggie doodoos.

But even with PSM off, TT is still much easier to drive than the GT3 at the track. I have the same sort of frustration in the TT versus M3 that Macfly has in his GT3 versus TT. I know for a fact that I would have been much faster at Button Willow with my old M3 with DSC off, because it's just such an incredibly balanced and easy car to drive, but instead I had the TT with PSM off, and there are still sections where I am just plain slow in it compared to the M3...