Bob Rouleau

Christian K - I am confident that a GT3 would be quicker than a Stradale but I was unable to prove it. The guy that bought the Stradale gave it back because the week before the Challenge cars were way faster then he was. The Stradale can't run slicks because the wheels are 19 inches in diameter - needed to clear the cermaic brakes. He bought a used Challenge racer instead. The GT3 RS would likely hold its own against the Challenge race-cars. To be fair a Cup car would be the logical one to compare with since the GT3 Cup is a race car for a single model race series just like the Challenge 360. On the other hand, a GT3 Cup car laps at 1:41 or 6 seconds faster then the best time Sunday.

It was also obvious that a set of slicks would have dropped my times by several seconds and made it a more interesting contest. Still, I was impressed at how a street car on Corsas could at least keep the race cars in sight.

Best,

Sloth

Here is the GT3 v. 360 match up IMHO...

GT3= standard 360------------> standard road going version
GT3rs= 360 Stradale----------> more track prepped street car
GT3 Cup= 360 Challenge-----> mfg. spec series track only cars
GT3RSR= 360 GTR--------------> FIA approved track only car

Bob,
Sounds like you did a good job carrying the Porsche banner against the Fcars... especialy with them running on slicks.

Bob Rouleau

Sloth - Your match-ups look right on to me.

AsianBond

Bob, I read some kind of disconnect here. First, I'm a Porsche fan so that tells you I'm all for the GT3s. But if you're saying that you're running a stock GT3 with street tires against 360 Challenge cars on slicks and are only 4-5 seconds behind per lap then something is not right. Because assuming you use slicks(good for 3 to 4 seconds per lap) you would be running even with the Challenge cars with full street weight.

How is that possible unless:

-you are very proficent race car driver (one must asume the guys testing the challenge cars are at least semi-pro)
-a street weight GT3 on the same slicks delivers better perfomance than a track spec 360 Challenge car taking into account the different level of drivers

I just can't see how a stock GT3 can run so close to 360 Challenge cars that typically compete with GT3 cup and RSR cars.
-

macfly

Hey, nice avatar there Mr Bond, reminds of the year I did the South China Sea race, you have some seriously good food over there!

I just can't see how a stock GT3 can run so close to 360 Challenge cars that typically compete with GT3 cup and RSR cars. My guess is that there are many variables at play, experience and ability being a big one, as we all know having big $$ doesn't always = talent! The real test of the difference between all these machines is with the same driver, not different drivers.

Bob Rouleau

AsianBond - My comments apply solely to me driving my GT3 versus other people driving their Challenge cars. Like you I believe that a far match up would be a GT3 Cup against the Challenge car. My pal who took 2nd overall in the Challenge last year (his rookie year yet!) will probably turn 1:41's during the Challenge race at Leircuit next month. That puts him at a similar lap time to the GT3 Cup driven by a pro. I am not a pro racer and neither were the guys driving the Challenge cars. It was just fun, but I surprised a few of them with my street car.

Kaz

Here is a link that shows a few cars lined up by qualifying. You'll notice a 360 Challenge car sandwiched in between to race prepped 928S4's. This is at Fontana Raceway in Southern California. Mark usually beats the GT3 cup and RS cars with his 928. Last Sunday he placed first in class and 2nd to that GT1R car. He did lead it briefly but couldn't hold onto the lead after flat spotting a tire avoiding lapped traffic. Not that the car didn't have the hp to just bury him anyway. The silver Challenge car you see was not at the track last Sunday.

There is a 360GT race car that usually runs with them and it placed 3rd or 4th I believe. It is not driven very aggressively however as a 360GT should be much faster than a 360 Challenge car.

http://www.corbu.us/index.html

Hope this helps.

macfly

Kaz, nice pix, thanks for sharing!

Larry Herman

This just goes to show how much BS there is in racing. The stop watch doesn't lie, and wheel to wheel is the real proof. I was just at Watkins Glen yesterday and was timing some 996 race cars (maybe cup cars). It was a real professional show with the transporters & matching paint jobs and motorized tool boxes. They were all running 2:11s while at last years club race, the GT3 cup cars were running 2:01s. 10 seconds difference, LOL!

Maybe the Ferraris should be way faster, but you still have to DRIVE them faster. Way to go, Bob.

AsianBond

As much as I love the GT3s (I'm looking to get a GT3 RS soon), it's hard to phantom a street stock GT3 keeping up with an under 3,000lb 360 Challenge car on slicks and racing brakes. The power to weight ratio are quite far apart and a well driven 360 Challenge should definitely out brake you into the corners.

But I guess other variables even everything out.

Good job! Imagine what you would had done in a Challenge car.

MetalSolid

Do all GT1Rs have chopped roofs?

fuse

http://www.motortrend.com/features/p...ace/index.html

here is a Motor Trend comparison.

Hubert

Track days, even if timed, offer a limited volume of data b/c of the fact that during an open track event, the entire spectrum of skill is covered; moreover, simply b/c someone is in a racecar doesn't mean that their driving skill/talent is on par with their machines capabilities.
While it is obvious that Bob is a very talented and experienced driver, we don't know what the level of 360C drivers was, or what their level of familiarity w/ that chassis is. While Bob's anecdotal data point is a very complimentary litmus of the GT3's abilities, it would probably be best to discount the 360c times, until Bob buys a 360C and puts down his own series of times back to back b/w the GT3 and 360C. However, none of this takes away from Bob's overall achievement of keeping up w/ racecars in a streetcar on DOT tires.

M758

Guys this is really all for giggles.

Driver skill plays the biggets role in lap times. Even so playing with race cars and race drivers in lapping day even itself does not mean that much.

I race my little 944. When I race or qualfy I drive very hard. If I am just in race group practice then I tend to back of a bit and only push certain laps.

If I am running in Open track DE enviroment even with GT2's or GT3's I would NOT be going 100%.

Reason is why? Not racing or qualfying. Not certain that the other driver's on track are prepared for the kind of stuff that happens in race groups. Also guys on street tires can really slow down low hp momentum race cars.

We can't pass on straights since we have no hp, but can't take advatnage in the corners if we are behind unless we make "race passes" and why do that in DE/Open track?

So take Bob's comments as they were intended. Fun tough in check comments. I know Bob is smart enough to know all the limitations of such comparisons.

BTW...
Spec miata's can run 1:38's at Willow Spings. So too can 944-spec race cars (130 rwhp & 2600 lbs). It is amazing how fast a prepared race car is vs a non race driver on street tires in street car.

cosmos

Ok, I don't normally chime in on lap times and how a street car should be faster or slower in regards to power to weight ratio and all that other stuff. BUT, I was at ButtonWillow and there was a GT3 there on Hoosiers and was driven by (from what I was told) a very expeirenced driver. He did seem to know what he was doing.

Anyway, I was in my e46 M3 at full street weight 3600+ lbs and I was on street tires. I kept up with him just fine. I had later braking points and faster exit speeds. He was able to walk away on the straights, but again coming back down from speed and coming out the corners, I was able to catch up and keep up. I can turn a 2:15 on Street tires and about a 2:12 Hoosiers. It is not always about the stop watch.


My M3 is not stock, it has some suspension and brake work done, but non the less it does weight over 3600 lbs (It is corner balanced) and lacks hp from the GT3.

My point is, car to car is Bull****. It's about you knowing your OWN car and knowing the track YOU are on.

I am getting the GT3 cause it seems like the next logical progression for me from the M3. I have said it once and will say it again. If BMW made a CSL for the USA I would not be here, but they don't and the closest thing is the GT3.

We all like to defend our cars and like to think that for the money our cars are the fastest and the best out there. I actually believe that, since the GT3 is the best bang for the buck. When it comes to what it can keep up with and what is faster and what is slower. That being said, everything is relative.