Excellence on GT2 vs. GT3
04-22-2004, 02:43 PM
#46
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Marco Polo,
I have enjoyed reading your posts in this thread and on this board, and please allow me to expound on my comments regarding torque in this article.
I have been fortunate enough to own some fun and amazing cars over the years, and ever since I owned my first Porsche in 1999, I have driven in some type of competitive venue. You make an interesting comment here that I have been conditioned by the torque of the GT2, and though that might contribute to my torque addiction, I first got hooked with torque in my '92 500E
My comments in the magazine came from my experience that day in feeling like I needed to downshift to one or two lower gears in order to dip into the power band, whereas with the GT2s I didn't find this necessary. Additionally, though the article was focused on spirited "canyon" driving, I felt that on the track it would be just one more "thing" to focus on prior to entering a turn. In contrast, the GT2 provides a driver with more flexibility in selecting gears for the optimal power on exiting corners.
Having said all of this, I have not had the pleasure of driving a GT3 on a track, so an experience like that might change my view
I have enjoyed reading your posts in this thread and on this board, and please allow me to expound on my comments regarding torque in this article.
I have been fortunate enough to own some fun and amazing cars over the years, and ever since I owned my first Porsche in 1999, I have driven in some type of competitive venue. You make an interesting comment here that I have been conditioned by the torque of the GT2, and though that might contribute to my torque addiction, I first got hooked with torque in my '92 500E
My comments in the magazine came from my experience that day in feeling like I needed to downshift to one or two lower gears in order to dip into the power band, whereas with the GT2s I didn't find this necessary. Additionally, though the article was focused on spirited "canyon" driving, I felt that on the track it would be just one more "thing" to focus on prior to entering a turn. In contrast, the GT2 provides a driver with more flexibility in selecting gears for the optimal power on exiting corners.
Having said all of this, I have not had the pleasure of driving a GT3 on a track, so an experience like that might change my view
04-22-2004, 03:02 PM
#47
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Brian,
I'm fortunate enough to have both. I like them both. To those who feel that the GT3 had inadequate torque, well I suppose anything feels like that after driving a GT2. To compare a GT3 to an S2000 is unfair IMO. The s2000 needs to be screaming to get out of its own way. The GT3 has more than enough grunt through the powerband to not need downshifts to keep up with traffic.
On track the GT3 is easier to drive because of the instant throttle response and linear power. It is more flexible too since the power band is wider than the GT2 which is less that exciting below 4000 and very exciting indeed up til 6800 RPM. the GT3 pulls well over a 4000 RPM range. I could imagine the GT2 being more fun in the canyons. On a race track the 2 is faster but not as much as one would expect given the power and torque differences.
How did you guys manage to fade the brakes on the GT3? On track with yellow pads, I have never had a soft pedal. That must have been one heck of a long downhill!!
I'm looking forward to reading the article.
Best,
I'm fortunate enough to have both. I like them both. To those who feel that the GT3 had inadequate torque, well I suppose anything feels like that after driving a GT2. To compare a GT3 to an S2000 is unfair IMO. The s2000 needs to be screaming to get out of its own way. The GT3 has more than enough grunt through the powerband to not need downshifts to keep up with traffic.
On track the GT3 is easier to drive because of the instant throttle response and linear power. It is more flexible too since the power band is wider than the GT2 which is less that exciting below 4000 and very exciting indeed up til 6800 RPM. the GT3 pulls well over a 4000 RPM range. I could imagine the GT2 being more fun in the canyons. On a race track the 2 is faster but not as much as one would expect given the power and torque differences.
How did you guys manage to fade the brakes on the GT3? On track with yellow pads, I have never had a soft pedal. That must have been one heck of a long downhill!!
I'm looking forward to reading the article.
Best,
04-22-2004, 03:40 PM
#50
Originally posted by gt2-996
I suppose that Car magazine should have tested a dozen or so alignment settings on the GT3RS before they proclaimed the Ferrari Challenge Stradale the "better" car in their anniversary issue.
EVO rated the "standard" GT3 better than the Stradale in their massive shootout.
I suppose that Car magazine should have tested a dozen or so alignment settings on the GT3RS before they proclaimed the Ferrari Challenge Stradale the "better" car in their anniversary issue.
EVO rated the "standard" GT3 better than the Stradale in their massive shootout.
04-22-2004, 03:50 PM
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Bob,
Great to see your comments, and clearly you have the best of both worlds owing the two GTs.
We were driving on some very twisty back roads in Northern California that were void of any other drivers or wildlife for that matter. Imagine having 4 people rotating through all of the cars, including the GT3, for a period of at least 1 1.5 hours driving pretty hard on some very, very twisty roads. Add to that equation a driver of Johannes' ability, and it might become more apparent how we felt brake fade. A finally point is that the GT3 probably had factory brake fluid, and with a higher temperature boing point fluid it might not have been as apparent.
Great to see your comments, and clearly you have the best of both worlds owing the two GTs.
We were driving on some very twisty back roads in Northern California that were void of any other drivers or wildlife for that matter. Imagine having 4 people rotating through all of the cars, including the GT3, for a period of at least 1 1.5 hours driving pretty hard on some very, very twisty roads. Add to that equation a driver of Johannes' ability, and it might become more apparent how we felt brake fade. A finally point is that the GT3 probably had factory brake fluid, and with a higher temperature boing point fluid it might not have been as apparent.
04-22-2004, 03:58 PM
#53
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I would only add that the steel brakes, while still spectacular at the end of the day, were less consistent than the PCCBs in their behavior. By the end of the day they exhibited some degree of fade and overall pedal feel was a bit more spongy if you will. The ceramics performed consistently from the beginning of the day to the end.
Of course I don't have any scientific data to back this up....
Josh
Of course I don't have any scientific data to back this up....
Josh
04-22-2004, 06:59 PM
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As for "riding the brakes," I don't think you can do that in the GT3. After '01, Porsche modified the E-gas so that if you press the brake pedal while in gear and under power, the throttle cuts out. Very aggravating if you want to warm up the brakes before the first green flag lap.
04-22-2004, 07:04 PM
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PS I for one think its very cool to be able to get some read-between-the -lines insights from the article's contributors. It would be a shame to be so rigorously (or insensitively) critical of their work that we lose any future opportunities from them or others who read this board.
04-23-2004, 12:53 AM
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Brian - thanks for the insights. As I think of it, pad condition also matters if the GT3 pads were worn down to half or so, fade is more likely. I gather from your comment that your GT2 has something better than the factory fluid.
brh986 - in the R and T shootout, I thought it was interesting that the GT3 did so well against the stradale in spite of running on regular tires. The ferrari comes on Corsa R compounds which make a big difference in acceleration, braking and cornering.
Rgds
brh986 - in the R and T shootout, I thought it was interesting that the GT3 did so well against the stradale in spite of running on regular tires. The ferrari comes on Corsa R compounds which make a big difference in acceleration, braking and cornering.
Rgds
04-23-2004, 05:41 PM
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Bob, your point is well-taken on the pad life of the GT3, which I am not sure of. I am actually running stock brake fluid in my GT2, and so far (4 track days @ ~3 hrs/ea.) it still stops amazingly well.
04-23-2004, 10:34 PM
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Dealman - I ran the factory brake fluid on my GT2 and never had a problem either. OTOH I never had fade on the GT3 on track either. One of these days the magazine will show up or maybe I'll lose patience and buy a copy tomorrow!
04-24-2004, 07:53 AM
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Bob, If your copy doesn't show up and you have a hard time finding one let me know as I have an extra copy I could send you. I just received my subscription copy in the mail yesterday.
