spooky69

I've seen a couple of Clubsports I like. One is completely original, excellent service history, etc. The other has recently had an engine rebuilt from an EU place that seems to have a good reputation and is also fitted with Ohlins Road and Track.

I usually look for something to be as original as possible but at some point suspension needs replacing and engines need work, so I am wondering if the one that's had the work done might be a better choice.

Thoughts?

Sirenty

What do you want to use it for?

Why was it rebuilt? Time/mileage or mishap?

spooky69

Mostly road but maybe some track use.

I'm waiting on further information but the reason someone gives might not necessarily be the truth.

It's got 65,000km with a couple of thousand on the new engine. Apparently receipts for 20,000 EUR work on the engine, matching numbers still. On the one hand it seems odd to spend that much and sell it but maybe after spending that much they need the money.

The other one I am looking at has about 59,000km on it and is all original.

spooky69

Nice silver 964 by the way @Sirenty - my alternative is a renovated and updated 964 for the same money.

RyanH.

I have had both and I'd take the GT3 without a second thought. While the 964 has charm and makes nice mechanical noises inside, it simply pales in comparison to the glorious sounds a 6GT3 make. Add to it that I can comfortably sit in traffic on a hot day being both comfortable and unconcerned about my car overheating. The GT3 has all of the highlights of an air-cooled car while being still properly fast, even by today's standards.

For example, last weekend I was asked to lead the group drive where we had a 991 GTS, 718 GTS and 718 GT4, among others and I put a sizeable gap on them. While a lot of that comes down to the driver, I couldn't do that in a 964. When I drove the 964, it was a fun experience each time but every time I get in the GT3 it's a huge effin grin about how special the car is. I'm driving something that is as close to a race car for the road as practicable and it's unlikely Porsche will ever make anything quite like this again.

For me, the only classic 911 that is in the same price range (kinda) that I'd be torn about would be a 73 RSR tribute but the reality is most well done ones are 200k cars.

Patrick3000

996 GT3 for the win. I would buy the original car even if it is priced substantially higher than the one with a rebuilt engine. It is only original once. Good luck and enjoy.

spooky69

That was my initial thought but it did occur to me that a fully rebuilt engine, done correctly, and upgraded suspension might not be a bad thing and would probably need to be done eventually anyway. I prefer the colour of the one that's been rebuilt as well but I need more information.

Obviously it would depend on use but I wonder when rebuilds might be expected and when suspension might usually be looked at. Regardless of how they are used they are also of a certain age where things are probably going to need replacement before long anyway.

spooky69

The GT3s and the updated 964 I am looking at are about the same priice.

Marv

Really depends on what you want in a car. I never felt the love for my 964 C4. It was fy first 911. My next car was a '96 993 C2, which I found to be much better.

However, after driving a used GT3 at a dealer's lot I quickly parted with the 993 and haven't looked back. I've put 138K miles on my GT3—so far.

For me the GT3 is much closer to what I feel a "sports car" should be. You may like the nostalgia of the 964. Nothing wrong with that. I found it to be a transition car, in my opinion, from the late 1980s Carrera to the more refined 993. There were many little details that were problems for me that got sorted in the 993. All the problems that came with the 964 I had with mine, including the water damage to the main ECU wiring harness.

spooky69

I read about the ECU / water issue - amazing how things always seem to get through the design stage and they sometimes seem rather obvious, like not letting water get into the electronics. I cannot remember what year they sorted that issue out - the 964 I have seen is a 1990 registration (not sure of the MY of course). I guess some research would answer that question. For me, I prefer the old-style looks of the 964 over the 993 but that's entirely subjective.

Thanks for telling me about your journey and it's nice to see you putting on the miles. The only GT3 I have driven was a 991.1 and I loved the sound and mechanical feel, even with PDK. The sound of the Mezger in the 996 GT3 is something that I cannot imagine getting tired of. I started with TVRs when I was 19 and had a couple of them, then I later had a E92 M3 with various bits done to it and most recently a 991.2 GTS, which I preferred to the 992, but the GTS was still only really alive on the track and left me somewhat cold on the road, hence looking back at these cars.

The 996 GT3 looks reasonable value at the moment (although not as good as it was a few years back of course) and I wouldn't be at all surprised to see them do well in the future - not vast numbers made, apparently a more old-school feel compared to the newer GT3s (?). The two I am looking at are Gen 2 and that's the way I would go if I go for this over the 964.

I prefer the colour of the one that's had work done (it's amazing the difference the colour can make on some cars) and having a rebuilt engine and fresh Ohlins suspension seems a good thing on the face of it.

Marv

Wow, I would have loved to have a TVR. I cut my teeth on TR-4s and TR-4as, so the ride in the GT3 is not an issue for me.

I also have put Ohlins R&T on mine. Much depends on your roads. Here in Florida they are okay, but not as good as you might expect. Heat and the lack of deep foundations for the road will cause rippling in the asphalt. That and the larger number of construction dump trucks due to the rapid expansion in our area is further exasperating the condition.

However, the Ohlins is superior to the OEM suspension and while stiffer, feels compliant enough for my tastes.

I use my car almost exclusively on the road with a few autocross sessions when I can get them. I just had the heads redone due to low compression in a couple cylinders. The bottom end is fine, so we did not do a full rebuild. The only other thing that these cars need is the coolant pipes welded or pinned. They are epoxied at the factory and the adhesive gives up the ghost over time causing a catastrophic loss of coolant.

A standard modification for the GT3 is the Guard LSD differential. The factory unit has what I call a dealer blacktop lifespan. That is, once it leaves the dealer's lot the LSD is pretty much toast.

Sirenty

Thanks!

Regarding the two GT3s, I would lean towards the modified one, because it is already headed down the path I want to take it. But I’m one who doesn’t care about originality because I never keep my cars original. Stock cars can always be improved upon, and I like OEM+ modifications. I also don’t think about resale value until I am ready to sell a car, so something that fits my needs will be given more priority over something I think might sell for more later.

However, sometimes the upgrades a previous owner did end up not matching what I want, and I have to replace things anyway, so a stock car might have been a better choice. For example, my car came with Moton Clubsports that I thought would be perfect for what I want, but I ended up ordering MCS coilovers to replace them. It’s a gamble.

In your case, I might base it on other things, such as color. If one is a more unique color, or more what I am looking for, I would go for that. I have always bought condition/upgrades over color previously, and I always end up with silver cars. And that affects my enjoyment a little bit because I hate silver…. Don’t think about it when I am driving them though.

Regarding 964 vs GT3, sure the GT3 is faster and more raw than a stock 964. But is it better than a well modified 964 from a sensory perspective? Not as clear cut to me. If I had to get rid of one, I don’t know which it would be. Though if I had an engine with 300+ rwhp in the 964, it would be the clear keeper. If I had to keep one for track duty, it would be the GT3 because I am too tall for the 964 to comfortably fit with a helmet and to get my arm out the window.

spiller

GT3 over 964, no question. Therefore we move on to the rebuilt car versus the original car. These are becoming appreciating classics and I personally would want the original car over the rebuilt one. 59,000 kms is nothing for a mezger so you should not have to rebuild that motor for a long, long time. There is either more to the story of the rebuilt one (e.g. big over rev) or the owner was just unlucky as we all know Mezgers rarely fail without serious provocation. It’s personal taste, but I wouldn’t want a low km car that has been rebuilt when a good original car with the same kms is on offer for similar money. If it had 250,000kms on it then that’s a different story.

yelcab

A GT3 same price as a 964? That seems odd. I saw a 996 GT3 with 9000 miles go for $195,000 a few months ago.

spooky69

Sold for that price or advertised for that price?

9,000 miles is very low as well. A 964 with that mileage would fetch a premium as well.

Plenty of GT3 are being sold for the same money as a decent 964 and some 964 are fetching more than you'd pay for a decent GT3.