Track Tire
03-20-2004, 08:03 PM
#1
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
Track Tire
I need a track tire for Solo 1,
the choices are the
Michelin Sport Cups,
pirelli p Zero corsa,
tire rack has two types the stock OE porsche tire which are cheaper and the regular tire, what is the difference?
Toyo RA1 do they work cold?
The Sport Cups i had on my z06, they were great until mid season were they did not work as well, it could be due to the colder weather and the short laps in Solo 1........ 1 warm up three hot laps.
Does anybody have experience with these tire's, i would need them to work with very little warm up.
the choices are the
Michelin Sport Cups,
pirelli p Zero corsa,
tire rack has two types the stock OE porsche tire which are cheaper and the regular tire, what is the difference?
Toyo RA1 do they work cold?
The Sport Cups i had on my z06, they were great until mid season were they did not work as well, it could be due to the colder weather and the short laps in Solo 1........ 1 warm up three hot laps.
Does anybody have experience with these tire's, i would need them to work with very little warm up.
03-20-2004, 11:16 PM
#2
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Hoosiers are not an option? They would be the clear choice if they are legal. All the above-mentioned tires take a lap or two to warm up, I don't know that any has a clear advantage. Sounds like when your Sport Cups went away you probably had exceeded the heat cycle allowance. Even with tread remaining, if they are cycled beyond some figure (opinions vary on what that number is) the stick is pretty much gone.
Gary
Gary
03-21-2004, 05:01 AM
#3
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Z06,
The Pilot Sport Cups take too long time to heat up in my opionion but last very well. The Toyo RA1 is an autocross/short track tire and heat up quickly. Other options are Dunlop D01J and Yokohama A048, both sticky and available in Porsche sizes. I currently run D01J's and so far I'm very pleased.
Gary, you are absolutely right about the Cups loosing grip after it's number of heatcycles, I have experienced the same thing!
Ciao,
Johannes E.
The Pilot Sport Cups take too long time to heat up in my opionion but last very well. The Toyo RA1 is an autocross/short track tire and heat up quickly. Other options are Dunlop D01J and Yokohama A048, both sticky and available in Porsche sizes. I currently run D01J's and so far I'm very pleased.
Gary, you are absolutely right about the Cups loosing grip after it's number of heatcycles, I have experienced the same thing!
Ciao,
Johannes E.
03-21-2004, 05:16 AM
#4
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
I drive 1 to 2 hours to the track and spend the weekend there, the Hoosiers have no real tread incase of rain.
Why is there two listings and prices for the same size pirelli r compound tires? is the OE Pirelli PZero Corsa different?
I think it will come down to the Toyo's and the Pirelli, leaning towards the Pirelli for the OE on the gt3 rs, but i still will like to get the best tire that will heat up quickly and work in the rain.
I will be competing against my old 500 HP zo6 and several other z06's, the Solo 1 Ontario is very competitive.
Why is there two listings and prices for the same size pirelli r compound tires? is the OE Pirelli PZero Corsa different?
I think it will come down to the Toyo's and the Pirelli, leaning towards the Pirelli for the OE on the gt3 rs, but i still will like to get the best tire that will heat up quickly and work in the rain.
I will be competing against my old 500 HP zo6 and several other z06's, the Solo 1 Ontario is very competitive.
03-21-2004, 10:16 AM
#5
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There are two versions of the Corsa - the regular ones that are pictured on Tire Rack's website and the "system".
See this thread for more details - make sure you read the article that's referenced.
https://rennlist.com/forums/showthre...i+corsa+system
See this thread for more details - make sure you read the article that's referenced.
https://rennlist.com/forums/showthre...i+corsa+system
03-22-2004, 12:48 PM
#7
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Originally posted by FSAEracer03
From the small experience I had at the track with customers, the Hoosiers couldn't hold a light to the Goodyear GS-CS.
From the small experience I had at the track with customers, the Hoosiers couldn't hold a light to the Goodyear GS-CS.
Gary
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03-22-2004, 12:55 PM
#8
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
I think the winning z06 in the SCCA T1 series used the Goodyear tire, they work good in the warmer temperature like the Hoosier and would take a little longer to work as far as solo 1 and autox.
03-22-2004, 01:01 PM
#9
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Cups loosing grip after it's number of heatcycles, I have experienced the same thing!
I have a set sitting here, waiting for the OEM tires to get used up, so I'm a little concerned I don't mess them up prematurely. (I'm keeping the OEM tires going to learn the car's dynamics more before switching.)
How many heat cycles does it take for them to 'go away'?
Also how many combined canyon/track day miles can I expect from them?
I have a set sitting here, waiting for the OEM tires to get used up, so I'm a little concerned I don't mess them up prematurely. (I'm keeping the OEM tires going to learn the car's dynamics more before switching.)
How many heat cycles does it take for them to 'go away'?
Also how many combined canyon/track day miles can I expect from them?
03-22-2004, 01:24 PM
#10
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Originally posted by tdf360
I admit I'm not aware of the Goodyear GS-CS. Is it an R-compound? In my experience the Hoosier is the closest thing to a full-on racing slick available, and no other R-compound tire, much less any street tire, is even close on the track in terms of sheer performance.
I admit I'm not aware of the Goodyear GS-CS. Is it an R-compound? In my experience the Hoosier is the closest thing to a full-on racing slick available, and no other R-compound tire, much less any street tire, is even close on the track in terms of sheer performance.
03-22-2004, 01:59 PM
#11
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Macfly -
There are two issues to deal with. Tread wear is a function of how hard you corner and how many miles you drive. Eventually the tread wears down and you need new rubber. This rarely happens because you tire will expire from heat cycle exhaustion first.
With R compound tires we add the dimension of the heat cycle. Any run which gets the tires up to operating temperature is a heat cycle. For example if you drive a 20 minute session on the track that's one heat cycle. If you go for 90 minutes (you may run out of gas!) that's also one heat cycle.
The Michelin Cup tire will give you 20 to 30 heat cycles based on my observation. The actual number will depend on how hard you drive the car.
Note that you can improve the grip and durability of an R compound tire by heat cycling it. That involves getting the tire up to operating temps and then letting it rest for 24 hours preferable horizontal - off the car in a coll dark place. Some chemical magic happens and the tire will perform better afterwards. You can order tires already cycled from Tire Rack.
Once a tire has reached its maximum number of heat cycles it loses grip. You'll notice it on track. Off track, compare it to a new tire and you'll notice that the rubber on your worn out tire will be a lot harder than a new one.
Using the Michelin Cup and P-0 Corsa I have never run out of tread - the tires just get hard and lose their outstanding grip.
There seems to be a correlation between the maximum number of heat cycles and the amount of maximum grip. Hoosier slicks gave me 10 heat cycles, Michelin Cups about 25 and Corsa's about 30. They also rate the same way grip wise - hoosier being the stickiest.
Best,
There are two issues to deal with. Tread wear is a function of how hard you corner and how many miles you drive. Eventually the tread wears down and you need new rubber. This rarely happens because you tire will expire from heat cycle exhaustion first.
With R compound tires we add the dimension of the heat cycle. Any run which gets the tires up to operating temperature is a heat cycle. For example if you drive a 20 minute session on the track that's one heat cycle. If you go for 90 minutes (you may run out of gas!) that's also one heat cycle.
The Michelin Cup tire will give you 20 to 30 heat cycles based on my observation. The actual number will depend on how hard you drive the car.
Note that you can improve the grip and durability of an R compound tire by heat cycling it. That involves getting the tire up to operating temps and then letting it rest for 24 hours preferable horizontal - off the car in a coll dark place. Some chemical magic happens and the tire will perform better afterwards. You can order tires already cycled from Tire Rack.
Once a tire has reached its maximum number of heat cycles it loses grip. You'll notice it on track. Off track, compare it to a new tire and you'll notice that the rubber on your worn out tire will be a lot harder than a new one.
Using the Michelin Cup and P-0 Corsa I have never run out of tread - the tires just get hard and lose their outstanding grip.
There seems to be a correlation between the maximum number of heat cycles and the amount of maximum grip. Hoosier slicks gave me 10 heat cycles, Michelin Cups about 25 and Corsa's about 30. They also rate the same way grip wise - hoosier being the stickiest.
Best,
03-22-2004, 03:11 PM
#12
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The Michelin Cup tire will give you 20 to 30 heat cycles based on my observation.
As always thanks for the great observation Bob, now for a couple more dumb novice questions;
If I do a days drive from LA up the backroads to Laguna Seca, with a long stop for lunch can I assume that will be just 2 heat cycles? (keeping all gas stops to under 5 mins.)
If these are my only wheels/tires it certainly looks like I need to make sure every drive counts, but if I use the car gently to head over to the mechanic's for an alingment etc, and I keep it very calm, can I stay below the heat cycle threashold?
As always thanks for the great observation Bob, now for a couple more dumb novice questions;
If I do a days drive from LA up the backroads to Laguna Seca, with a long stop for lunch can I assume that will be just 2 heat cycles? (keeping all gas stops to under 5 mins.)
If these are my only wheels/tires it certainly looks like I need to make sure every drive counts, but if I use the car gently to head over to the mechanic's for an alingment etc, and I keep it very calm, can I stay below the heat cycle threashold?
03-22-2004, 07:22 PM
#13
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
I got about 35 heat cycles with the Sport Cups, there grip when new were better than the kuhmo tire.
Which tire would have more grip, Sport Cups or pirelli?
Is the porsche gt3 rs Pirelli pzero that far off from the regular Pirelli Pzero as far as grip goes, i guess what i am asking is it the same rubber compound?
Which tire would have more grip, Sport Cups or pirelli?
Is the porsche gt3 rs Pirelli pzero that far off from the regular Pirelli Pzero as far as grip goes, i guess what i am asking is it the same rubber compound?
03-22-2004, 07:30 PM
#14
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Originally posted by Z06
Is the porsche gt3 rs Pirelli pzero that far off from the regular Pirelli Pzero as far as grip goes, i guess what i am asking is it the same rubber compound?
Is the porsche gt3 rs Pirelli pzero that far off from the regular Pirelli Pzero as far as grip goes, i guess what i am asking is it the same rubber compound?
03-22-2004, 08:15 PM
#15
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I've had good success running both Hoosiers and Goodyear GS-CS "Dot-R" tires. No experience with Michelim's on a vette. Some of my buddies are running the New Kumo's!!! 
Check out SCCA Forum, T-1 board!!!