XSpeedFreakX

taken from the April edition of "EVO"
article "The Greatest Drivers' Cars"
excerpt....

"Had this been a twin test, the new GT3 would have beaten the NSX-R, but only just. It gives best to the original GT3 though, on a majority verdict. The debate over which GT3 was best centered around the differences in feel and grip at the pointy end. Fact is, they're both outstandingly focused, raw and charismatic drivers' cars with fabulous build quality and spectacularly potent, unburstable flat-six engines. It all comes down to personal preference, and most of us prefer the ealier car. 'I'm sure I'm alone in perferring the new GT3 to the old,' says Meaden, 'but I'm convinced that although the old car has far more immediate initial turn-in, it ultimately lacks the new car's level of steering feel. I agree the new car's disconcerting tendency to understeer is it's Achilles' heel, but you can drive around it to a certain degree. The differential feels sharper-acting, which can make it snappier in tight corners, but when it hooks up you get an unmatched sense of exploding out of the corner........."

There's more if you guys want me to post it.

rockitman

Continue...Thanks

MetalSolid

There are 4 current magazines that have GT3/RS reviews, EVO, Car, Motor Trend and Sports Car International. Buy 'em, read 'em - well maybe just read MT at the Newsstand.

XSpeedFreakX

...."That's not enough to swing it for the rest of us. 'Push on and it fidgets, really fidgets, and the rear will step out with little provication, ' says Hayman. 'It hasn't moved the game on.' Metcalfe agrees: 'The new car has never impressed me like the original did. Sure, the engine is even stronger, but anything other than perfectly smooth Tarmac leaves the chassis flummoxed thanks to it's ridiculously stiff-front end. Grip never feels as strong as you'd want it to be, undermining your confidence. it's too compromised for UK roads.'
It's not that we mean to be negative about the new GT3; it's just that you can't appraise one without referring to the other. It really is a marvelous thing; it's our current CAR OF THE YEAR, after all.
For the majority of us, the original GT3 is the more rounded, responsive and rewarding package. 'The original just blew me away, ' says first-timer Bovingdon, who made it his overall champion. 'You only have to look at it to know what to expect when you twist the key; and it dosen't dissapoint. You'd never want for more power unless you'd just stepped out of the new car. Perhaps there isn't quite the same detail through the wheel but I'll happily trade that for reliable, confidence inspiring turn-in. I felt encouraged to use all the performance even in damp conditions. I want one.'
So does Metcalf: 'Top 911 ever for me - a beautifully balanced package in terms of looks, power, handling and price. A serious driver's car, rewarding whatever skills you might possess. The new car gives you more power, but you never realized you needed any more anyway.'
Hayman echoes those sentiments. 'So the engine isn't as strong as the new model; so what! It still is a very fine thing with a better soundtrack and absolutley the right amount of power for the car, so you can wring it out fully. The steering dosen't feel quite as communicative as the mk II's, but maybe that's because the chassis is not fighting the road as much. One of my all-time favorite cars.'"

Bill_C4S

Metalsolid...for a second thought you were suggesting that one should just read MT (and forget the others)......lol..then realised what you meant.

macfly

Having already experience both Jeckyl and Hyde in my GT3 my first question is what alignment were they using, and secondly, what tyres & pressures?

If they were on an 'unalinged' car using stock camber, toe etc I think the tests are almost meaningless. The change to the turn in, and mid corner balance in the car when set up to be track day and sports focused is so great that that it makes the test's comparisons obsolete without full documentation of the settings.

The one thing that seemed a little odd for them to say is......it's too compromised for UK roads. I thought the whole point of this car was that it wasn't a compromise to road comfort, it is a track day special that will get you there and back in reasonable comfort?

Ahhh well, sticks and stones as they say. At least I get to own and drive one every glorious sunny day of the year here in SoCal, a million miles away from the grey days and warm beer of my youth. Thinking of England I'm sure you all downloaded that great video from the BBC with them all raving about the car, and it being the third fastest car they'd ever run on their little test strip, and that was in the wet on stock tires.

brh986

Does all that they complain of with the MKII relate to the "instability" or "twichiness" at high speed I've heard others complain of?

Can't this be corrected with alignment and/or minor adjustments to the factory adjustable suspension?

If so what should be done?

Tire pressure reccomendations?

I don't want to waste any time getting the car setup "right" when it comes.

Where can one get this?

MetalSolid

Here: right click and Save As

macfly

Does all that they complain of with the MKII relate to the "instability" or "twichiness" at high speed I've heard others complain of?
I haven't read the whole thing yet, from what is here it looks like that and initial turn in feel are the things they are not loving about it. These are the things that really start to change with alignment and suspension set up.

Can't this be corrected with alignment and/or minor adjustments to the factory adjustable suspension? Yes, to a certain extent, but if you look at the way the Cup cars move around in the televised races these cars just do that at maximum speeds.

If so what should be done? See the thread on alignments. Corner weight, balance, set your ride height, sway bars caster, camber and toe in.

Tire pressure reccomendations? I'm no expert here, but following the advice of others for the track start 32f 34r cold, look for 38-40 or 40-42 hot depending on what feels right to you.

I don't want to waste any time getting the car setup "right" when it comes.
Just do what is outlined above.

9caregiver

Funny I just read the GT3 comparison article tonight. The puzzling part is the early car was on track rubber and was a track day car where the new car was just out of the box. How about same tires and suspension set up? On paper there is no way the old car would be superior, less rubber, suspension, power ect.

I have gotten used to the suspension settings. The "twichiness" is there from the toe out settings so the car turns in better. If you do not use the car on the track I suppose you could have it set less.


Best,

Don

brh986

Is the toe out on the front or the back?

I thought they were complaining that the turn in was not as immediate on the MK II?

XSpeedFreakX

I don't know what article is being talked about now, but the EVO guys have only one gripe with the GT3 mk2. This being less responsive turn in compared with the mk1, partially due to it's stiffer front end. On the other hand, this stiffer front end on the mk2 gives the driver better feedback compared to the Mk1. This is pretty much the same comment "GT Purely Porsche" magazine made in their comparo. Good thing the GT3 has ajustable sway bars, huh?

Steve in FL

brh986: You really don't want toe-out on the back of a 911.

macfly

brh986: You really don't want toe-out on the back of a 911. seconded!

Whatever you do don't do rear toe out, it will completely destroy the feeling and handling of the car at best, and at worst is an accident waiting to happen. I had mine slightly toed out due to a bad aligment for a track day weekend, and it makes the rear feel like it wants to drive around the car in fast corners.

brh986

I vaguely understand the terminology in alignment (i.e. toe in/out, camber, etc.) but I have no idea what one would want to do with those things on a car to make it handle properly (with the exception of negative camber being good for track).

So the GT3 has too much front toe out from the factory? I heard that sometimes toe out on the front is a quick fix to make the car track straight. Is that true?