LIS

At my last event I corded a tire (NT01), and wound up switching to street tires (Continental Extreme Contact Sport). Surprisingly, I was able to run times within 2 seconds of the NT01s, despite the fact that the Continentals were full tread, and the NT01s were essentially slicks. This got me thinking about alternatives to the NT01 for DE use, especially since the NT01 has been around for 10+ years now.

Any thoughts or experiences with alternatives? I'm not after ultimate speed, just something that's predictable and capable of surviving multiple days on track without cording/heat cycling out.

Thanks,
Larry

Nickshu

I am running NT01s. I may be going to Pirelli DH's next year. I have been told they last like NT01s but grip like R7s. I ran R7s but for the price they sure don't last long.

cgfen

If you want to try DOT street legal tyres;

Michelin Pilot Sport 4
Yokohoma AD08R
Yokohama AO52 - short lived
Bridgestone RE-71R - short lived

are some options, not as ultimately sticky as NT01, but good never the less

Burger

The NT01 is a great tire. Going to a street tire will generally have drawbacks beyond lap times. You typically won't get as many heat cycles, and they will often get greasy with longer sessions as they heat up.

The Pirellis do not last as long as Nittos. They do wear well for a slick, though.

cgfen's list is good if you're set on it, though.

Good questions would be how many events do you do a year and how far do you drive to get to them. If they're close and not too frequent, streets are a good option.

LIS

Thanks for all the feedback!

I usually run 10-12 days a season, and tow a tire trailer behind the GT3 so I can swap tires at the track.

powdrhound

I've run all 3, NT01s (275/335), R7s (255/335), and DH (275/645, 315/680). NT01s are going to be tough to beat as they are a good track tire and were good for 15 sessions before becoming slicks and losing all grip at which point I would toss them. They were best at session 3-8 and degrade gradually after that. R7s were good for 5 sessions before falling off noticeably in performance. After 8 sessions they were utterly worthless. DHs are good for 12 sessions with an even gradual decline and even at at the end fo their life were better than R7s in their prime. On a 2 min lap, R7s were 1-2 sec faster than NT01, and DHs are 3 seconds faster than R7s. Both NT01s and R7s are at optimal grip by the 2nd or 3rd lap while the DHs take 4 or 5 laps to reach optimal grip. I always set my best time on NT01s and R7 on lap 2 and set me best time on DHs on lap 8. This is on a 60F day. The beauty of the DHs is the fact that once warmed up they do not fall off and stay consistent. NT01s would fall off after lap 6 and R7s were overheated by lap 4. I called the R7 a 2 lap tire. Many guys I know have good luck with the R7s but I just could not make them work for my application.

I would start NT01s and R7s at 23/24 cold and bleed to 32/33 hot. I start the DHs at 22/22 cold and bleed to 28/30 hot.

Alignment wise, NT01 and R7s will work on the same alignment specs. In my case, -3.50F/3.0R camber. DHs require about 3/4 degree more camber both front and rear, about -4.50F/-3.75R.

Obviously the above numbers will vary depending on the amount of driving aggression. I do think the DHs really shine for the driver who can get the required heat into the tire. Great tire for those hot 90F summer days. For someone running at a more sedate pace or in cooler temperatures, I'm not sure the DHs will bear much fruit. All worth experimenting with for each individual application however. Overall, for most guys the NT01 is tight to beat. Just use the 305 instead of the 315..

What makes the DHs attractive is that you can get scrubs for $500 a set instead of $2400 for a set of stickers. Quality however varies widely, some scrubs are good, some garbage. Just my $0.02.

spiller

I've found (old) DH excellent compared to just about anything also. Slicks are very different to r-compounds though and it takes a while to get your head around it. The grip level is subjective, some guys say they can't deal with DH that have gone past 8 cycles, some say they're fine for 15 or more. Obviously depends on a lot of factors and generally one can be more tolerant of declining grip if participating in a track day environment versus trying to keep up in a race with guys who throw stickers at their car every time they drive it. I wish I could get scrubs where I live as it's all I would run in that case.

Norge911

Nankang AR1 is a new alternative.

can be purchased online at Phil’s Tire Service.

Nickshu

Hadn't heard of the AR-1. This review is favorable for it: http://speed.academy/100-tread-wear-...c1-toyo-r888r/

KOAN

I like BFG R1s if the weather is below 75 degrees. They work in very cool weather when others do not. At VIR, they were 2 secs slower than Pirelli take offs.

DHI

Indeed ! A very good alternative !!

I got a set of AR1s from Phils Tire Service a few weeks ago and had the chance to recently try them at Calabogie for 7 sessions or so.

I don't have any real data to share, because I hadn't run NT01s for several years now (in favor of BFG R1S' and R7's) and the weather was a little cool (50-55 degF)... but with that said; THEY WERE AWESOME !

Very stiff sidewall, and the 315/30/18 is 1/2" narrower than the Nitto or Hoosier in that same size. This may actually appeal to those running 11" rims and feel that the 315 Nitto is to plump for them.

The AR1 showed impressive performance right off the bat in 50 degF weather and were consistent over the course of the 7 sessions. Their stiff sidewall makes them feel more responsive than what I remember from the Nitto's.

I guess the final blessing will come once I see how well they wear and how consistent they are through eh full cycle This is where the NT01's really shines, and the Nankang AR1 doesn't look off the mark.

smclaughlin

Any update on the AR1, especially regarding longevity on track? Any other alternative to the NT01?

To quote the OP: "I'm not after ultimate speed, just something that's predictable and capable of surviving multiple days on track without cording/heat cycling out."

Thanks!

craina

I am a big fan of the AR1. I have used them on my 993 and now have a set on the gt3. They are holding up well after 3 track days, 18 or so heat cycles. Rears are wearing out faster than the fronts for me. I am hoping to get 25 or so heat cycles out of the rears, I wouldn't be surprised if I replace 2:1 rear:front. I have not used the nt01 in years but the AR1 feels much more like a hoosier with regards to breakaway characteristics. Ultimate grip is higher than an nt01.

I have found they are best at pretty low pressures compared to other tires. Like no more than 30psi hot.

smclaughlin

Thanks! Can you describe what you mean here? I've never used Hoosiers, but I've read they don't communicate the limits of adhesion as obviously as an NT01 or R888R, both of which, in my experience at least, squeal quite a bit before letting go.

-Scott

craina

You're on the right track, the ar1 does not audibly communicate the limit of adhesion as well as the nt01. That said, the ar1 will squeal more than a hoosier but just not as much as an nt01. Hope that helps.