8 Recent Track Revelations
#1
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
8 Recent Track Revelations
Just back from two (2) days at Buttonwillow Raceway with PCA, SDR. They run a very well organized and tight event. Run groups went out on time with few exception. Your times were texted to you mere moments after the conclusion of the session. Results were not posted as we saw in the ole days. I was not on the look out for, nor did I see, any car to car or off course excursion significant carnage, always a good thing. Of course there were the usual "farming" off road events, but none catastrophic, always a good thing.
Revelation #1: I can almost drive the GT3 at track speeds, off about 3 seconds a lap. Been to Buttonwillow 2 times in the past year, and I never really felt comfortable with the car, had no clear idea where the limits could be. Now at least I have an idea. Coming from a track prepared 993 with 100 less HP, and full 993 RS Club Sport aero with a 60" rear wings, makes for an interesting contrast. With the GT3, you don't have aero to cover up your mistakes, nor PDK, PASM or Sports Chrono either. I saw some in-car video of a PDK 991 Carrera S equipped car.....shifting up and down so rapid and apparently effortless. It must be an advantage as PCA assigns points for PDK. No points for previous Sportomatic though
Revelation #2: The Pirelli P Zero (UTQC) Trofeo R tires do the job. No matter how I pushed them, performance was always predictable. I confess to less than 10/10th driving on all corners, but I did push it, getting my times from first sessions 2:15.XX to several 2:06.XX runs back to back on my last practice session (I am self confessed about 3 seconds off a winning pace, 2:02.99 at Buttonwillow #1 CW is where I want to be). I didn't stick (No pun intended) around for "official" timed runs, scheduled too late in the day, and I was looking at a 5 hour tow back home. Tires...the Pirelli P Zero Trofeo Rs are great tires, the do have that (UTQC) 60 rating, but next time, with the added camber I am having dialed in, I am going to give a set to Toyo Proxes a try, go up to 245 in front, 295, possibly 305 in the rear. I have been hearing great things about these tires, and they are cheap too.
Revelation #3: Alignment was off on one corner. This was indicated by a tire temp readings across the tread on one of the front corners, right front as I recall. I recently had the car aligned to Kassmaul (Spelling?) specs in LA, something must have gone wrong...and I have no off road incidents or pot hole encounters since the alignment. Also, noting the tire wear, this alignment is non-optimal for my driving style on the track. Living in a large CA Metro area (San Diego), frequent street driving (Occasional yes) is not a very attractive options to me, too many crazies out there, too much traffic. Ergo, I am having Adam Gill at Vollig Autowerks (San Diego) realign my car in the near future, with more of an emphasis on track performance...crank in some shim induced negative camber, and any other alignment tricks he has up his sleeve. Going forward, mine will be a track/street car, very little street.
Revelation#4: I am no longer interested in any supplemental aero modifications, no RS wing, no nada. I intend to drive the car as delivered, until such time as the need for optimized aero becomes obvious. If I were to go aero, I'd bolt up GT3 Cup aero front and rear, pull off the stock pieces and put them in storage. I'd also be out about $10,000 when all was said and done. I think I'll spend my money elsewhere.
Revelation #5: Track support. Vollig Autowerks provided it for me and about 5 others at Buttonwillow. I had decided to give it a try, very pleased that I did. With their support, nothing is left to chance....all needed to do was drive. I am hooked. Vollig will be at all PCASDR track events as well as some POC events in 2019.
Revelation #6: Brakes....I knew from former track weekends (3 of them), that the brakes were good. This past weekend, I used them harder than ever before. No fade, incredible ABS.....pedal remained firm all weekend, no need to bleed. I found myself trail braking effortlessly, optimizing turn in cornering. Just to be clear, I have converted from PCCB rotors, and have 350mm GIRO 2 piece rotors on the front and 997 Turbo 350mm slotted rotors on the rear, with Pagid Yellows all around.
Revelation #7: The Futura Trailer, with it's adjustable bed, and no need for ramps for my GT3, was well worth the investment and the minor inconvenience of an open trailer VS an enclosed trailer. The Futura was very easy and balanced tow. I will be adding a Futura optional tire rack....toting race tires in the back of my SUV takes up lots of room, and they are a pain in the *** to load and unload.
Revelation #8: Modifications: Do I need a LWF and clutch and to install a Guard LSD? I have the parts in a box, but now don't feel the need to install them until some time in the future. Have had no problems with the clutch and the LSD tests as working. I suspect it may have been upgraded by a previous owner. I do think I will upgrade the shifting cables....about three (3) times during the weekend the stock cables gave me a little grief, requiring me to be oh so deliberate and slow on upshifting. This equates to potential second(s) lost.
Finally, pushing my car past some previously self imposed limits, cornering and braking, was exhilarating. As we know that induction/engine sound from 5,500 up, is intoxicating. I can hardly wait for my next event. Looks to be February, previous commitments getting in the way of December and January events.
Revelation #1: I can almost drive the GT3 at track speeds, off about 3 seconds a lap. Been to Buttonwillow 2 times in the past year, and I never really felt comfortable with the car, had no clear idea where the limits could be. Now at least I have an idea. Coming from a track prepared 993 with 100 less HP, and full 993 RS Club Sport aero with a 60" rear wings, makes for an interesting contrast. With the GT3, you don't have aero to cover up your mistakes, nor PDK, PASM or Sports Chrono either. I saw some in-car video of a PDK 991 Carrera S equipped car.....shifting up and down so rapid and apparently effortless. It must be an advantage as PCA assigns points for PDK. No points for previous Sportomatic though
Revelation #2: The Pirelli P Zero (UTQC) Trofeo R tires do the job. No matter how I pushed them, performance was always predictable. I confess to less than 10/10th driving on all corners, but I did push it, getting my times from first sessions 2:15.XX to several 2:06.XX runs back to back on my last practice session (I am self confessed about 3 seconds off a winning pace, 2:02.99 at Buttonwillow #1 CW is where I want to be). I didn't stick (No pun intended) around for "official" timed runs, scheduled too late in the day, and I was looking at a 5 hour tow back home. Tires...the Pirelli P Zero Trofeo Rs are great tires, the do have that (UTQC) 60 rating, but next time, with the added camber I am having dialed in, I am going to give a set to Toyo Proxes a try, go up to 245 in front, 295, possibly 305 in the rear. I have been hearing great things about these tires, and they are cheap too.
Revelation #3: Alignment was off on one corner. This was indicated by a tire temp readings across the tread on one of the front corners, right front as I recall. I recently had the car aligned to Kassmaul (Spelling?) specs in LA, something must have gone wrong...and I have no off road incidents or pot hole encounters since the alignment. Also, noting the tire wear, this alignment is non-optimal for my driving style on the track. Living in a large CA Metro area (San Diego), frequent street driving (Occasional yes) is not a very attractive options to me, too many crazies out there, too much traffic. Ergo, I am having Adam Gill at Vollig Autowerks (San Diego) realign my car in the near future, with more of an emphasis on track performance...crank in some shim induced negative camber, and any other alignment tricks he has up his sleeve. Going forward, mine will be a track/street car, very little street.
Revelation#4: I am no longer interested in any supplemental aero modifications, no RS wing, no nada. I intend to drive the car as delivered, until such time as the need for optimized aero becomes obvious. If I were to go aero, I'd bolt up GT3 Cup aero front and rear, pull off the stock pieces and put them in storage. I'd also be out about $10,000 when all was said and done. I think I'll spend my money elsewhere.
Revelation #5: Track support. Vollig Autowerks provided it for me and about 5 others at Buttonwillow. I had decided to give it a try, very pleased that I did. With their support, nothing is left to chance....all needed to do was drive. I am hooked. Vollig will be at all PCASDR track events as well as some POC events in 2019.
Revelation #6: Brakes....I knew from former track weekends (3 of them), that the brakes were good. This past weekend, I used them harder than ever before. No fade, incredible ABS.....pedal remained firm all weekend, no need to bleed. I found myself trail braking effortlessly, optimizing turn in cornering. Just to be clear, I have converted from PCCB rotors, and have 350mm GIRO 2 piece rotors on the front and 997 Turbo 350mm slotted rotors on the rear, with Pagid Yellows all around.
Revelation #7: The Futura Trailer, with it's adjustable bed, and no need for ramps for my GT3, was well worth the investment and the minor inconvenience of an open trailer VS an enclosed trailer. The Futura was very easy and balanced tow. I will be adding a Futura optional tire rack....toting race tires in the back of my SUV takes up lots of room, and they are a pain in the *** to load and unload.
Revelation #8: Modifications: Do I need a LWF and clutch and to install a Guard LSD? I have the parts in a box, but now don't feel the need to install them until some time in the future. Have had no problems with the clutch and the LSD tests as working. I suspect it may have been upgraded by a previous owner. I do think I will upgrade the shifting cables....about three (3) times during the weekend the stock cables gave me a little grief, requiring me to be oh so deliberate and slow on upshifting. This equates to potential second(s) lost.
Finally, pushing my car past some previously self imposed limits, cornering and braking, was exhilarating. As we know that induction/engine sound from 5,500 up, is intoxicating. I can hardly wait for my next event. Looks to be February, previous commitments getting in the way of December and January events.
#2
Rennlist Member
I thought my GT3 drove terribly on the track with Kussmaul settings on the stock coilovers. That dude must have been smoking something when he came up with that setup...then again he is a legend and I am definitely not.
#3
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Kassmaul Legend
#4
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Kussmaul is not aggressive enough if you are using a proper r-compound and going all out on track. These need -3.5 and -2.8 in them to maximize the contact patch on track. I think it was only ever intend education to be a good multi purpose setting
#5
Rennlist Member
That's where I ended up. Also IMO Kussmaul sets the rear sway bar way too stiff. Minimal rear camber plus stiff sway bar made the car ridiculously tail happy, at least for my taste. The weak stock coilover springs don't help matters regardless of camber settings.
#6
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
front: -3.8 camber
zero toe
rear: -2.8 camber
1.5mm toe in each side
sway bars full stiff front and rear.
loved it. Predictable breakaway and the car was on the nose, very easy to get into the corner.
#7
Rennlist Member
From memory these were my settings on my old 6-3 (cup car non adjustable dampers and very firm springs front and rear)
front: -3.8 camber
zero toe
rear: -2.8 camber
1.5mm toe in each side
sway bars full stiff front and rear.
loved it. Predictable breakaway and the car was on the nose, very easy to get into the corner.
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#8
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
I did similar settings but -3 in the front and rear sway bar has been full soft or one off full soft. The stock GT3 coilovers are pretty weak as far as spring rates go and I think that contributes to instability on these cars more than anything...when you really load up one side the opposing side with limited drop cannot maintain traction, regardless of the alignment settings. On your Cup car you would not have that problem with an adjustable setup so you have a lot more freedom on the sway bar. This winter I am going to JRZ RS Pro 3-way coilovers with helper springs. Should be a big improvement.