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Fatherly Questions on the "No Traction Control"...
Hi guys - drove a stunning low mileage, Speed Yellow, 6GT3 on the weekend and absolutely loved it. It repeatedly cracked a smile on my face when the revs hit 6000 and above. What a hoot! Such a mechanical, fun car to drive. I found it a bit "twitchy" on the front end as it tended to crab every little imperfection in the road but I understand that may be a point of adjusting the camber of the car for non-track driving. Sound correct?
My question is more about the lack of traction control. I was aware of it but never really worried about it. I own a 993 and just drove the 6GT3 like that - hard straight-line braking before the corners and light, increasing throttle out of them. So what's the big "danger" here? More of an issue in inclement weather (of which it wouldn't be driven in)? I mentioned it to a friend and he texted back with shock about "wanting his family to have a father" etc... I certainly will take it to some rainy day DE events to purposefully throw the back end out and get a feel on this.
Thanks for any thoughts in advance.
P.s. Dropped in some pics just for...
P.s. Driving the Spyder on the way felt tamer in comparison but very very capable in its own defense. Just different, more polished. Loved the rawness of the 6GT3.
Last edited by Zeus993; 11-12-2018 at 02:56 PM.
Reason: Added pics...
Adjusting the alignment will dial out the tramming.
Traction control and other nannies are very effective when you exceed the limits of the car, particularly effective when you are not paying all that much attention, like when someone pulls out in front of you, or you look up from texting your order to the Chinese restaurant. Situations where you are really focused on driving.
They are great when you need them, and an annoyance when you are trying to do that yourself.
Hi guys - drove a stunning low mileage, Speed Yellow, 6GT3 on the weekend and absolutely loved it. It repeatedly cracked a smile on my face when the revs hit 6000 and above. What a hoot! Such a mechanical, fun car to drive. I found it a bit "twitchy" on the front end as it tended to crab every little imperfection in the road but I understand that may be a point of adjusting the camber of the car for non-track driving. Sound correct?
My question is more about the lack of traction control. I was aware of it but never really worried about it. I own a 993 and just drove the 6GT3 like that - hard straight-line braking before the corners and light, increasing throttle out of them. So what's the big "danger" here? More of an issue in inclement weather (of which it wouldn't be driven in)? I mentioned it to a friend and he texted back with shock about "wanting his family to have a father" etc... I certainly will take it to some rainy day DE events to purposefully throw the back end out and get a feel on this.
Thanks for any thoughts in advance.
P.s. Driving the Spyder on the way felt tamer in comparison but very very capable in its own defense. Just different, more polished. Loved the rawness of the 6GT3.
What you are feeling on the front end can be dialed out with alignment settings, but be aware the most performance tires will "tramline" a little here and there just following the grooves in the road.
In terms of traction control, IMO its not a big deal not having it on the 6GT3 because there is not a ton of TQ and the power delivery is very linear. The 6GT3 is not a beginners car though and your driving capabilities really should to be beyond what early 2000s traction control technology offered in order to get the most out of it.
Adjusting the alignment will dial out the tramming.
Traction control and other nannies are very effective when you exceed the limits of the car, particularly effective when you are not paying all that much attention, like when someone pulls out in front of you, or you look up from texting your order to the Chinese restaurant. Situations where you are really focused on driving.
They are great when you need them, and an annoyance when you are trying to do that yourself.
Thank you - my sentiments exactly. I'll make sure to keep my texting to stop lights! As for the tramming, good to hear an alignment will handle it.
Originally Posted by RossP
What you are feeling on the front end can be dialed out with alignment settings, but be aware the most performance tires will "tramline" a little here and there just following the grooves in the road.
In terms of traction control, IMO its not a big deal not having it on the 6GT3 because there is not a ton of TQ and the power delivery is very linear. The 6GT3 is not a beginners car though and your driving capabilities really should to be beyond what early 2000s traction control technology offered in order to get the most out of it.
Thanks for the info on tramlining. The Spyder has new PS4's on it and drives perfectly so I think it's more related to alignment. I experienced the same drive in a 458 some months back. Twitchy.
The power delivery of the GT3 was really great. Comes on at 6K and in a nice linear fashion. My driving skills are decent but like many can always use some sharpening. I can see owning this car and with some good track day coaching really getting it dialed in.
Originally Posted by AudiOn19s
everyone who is a father should sell their 996’s GT3’s immediately for the sake of their families. I’ll buy them all st $50k each
The main issue with not having any form of traction or stability control will present itself mainly on a race track. The limits of this car are quite high, so by the time you exceed them you happen to be moving along at such a speed that it is difficult for a less advanced driver to remedy the situation. Personally, I feel that if you are able to exceed the limits of this car on the road, you’re driving way too fast. You can still have a lot of fun in this car at speeds that would that would have you in jail, and STILL keep in one piece, they’re that good.
Don't lift in a turn . Like in the old days. simple.
Some drivers have grown up with Stability Control....and AWD such as the Carrera 4 cars. I have never driven a track car with stability control, nor will I ever. I don't want an electro-mechanical device saving my sorry ***.
I just did 2 days at Buttonwillow with PCA, respectable times, not great but respectable, 2:06.6, looking for 2:02.9999. The fast person in the class, in a 991 Carrera S, or a 991 GT3, believe it was a GT3, turned a 2:03.20. I drove the last session of the day on Sunday...with "my hair on fire" and got several laps in the 2:06 range, the best being a the 2:06.6. My previous best of the weekend was a 2:09...so 3 seconds is significant. Of course I had no electronic traction control, and the car didn't get squirrely until I did. Running track config 1, CW. No "nanny bypass", the complete track.
Just as the OP mentioned, the engine sound between 5,000 and 8.000 RPM is something that non-GT3 owners just can't experience. The brakes, good God.....using steel rotors and Pagid Yellows. And as many of you know, that ABS really works....I'll take that "nanny" feature, just no PASM....and I'll take the Limited Slip too.
In closing, driving Buttonwillow in any configuration is a blast. If you get the opportunity to drive it, don't miss it.
So what's the big "danger" here? More of an issue in inclement weather (of which it wouldn't be driven in)? I mentioned it to a friend and he texted back with shock about "wanting his family to have a father" etc.... Loved the rawness of the 6GT3.
Sounds like you (and we) have more "stones" than your friend.
I guess he doesn't do a lot of things that might kill him, like driving a nanny equipped car in traffic..........................
The 996 does have a traction control. Its first gen traction control and its called a limited slip differential. Its not very elegant or "smart": if a wheel spins faster than the other it just re-proportions up to 40% of available torque to the non-spinning wheel. Its not smart in that it doesnt manage rpm on the spinning wheel or compare yaw and wheel speed implied direction of travel. Its not elegant in that it does manage the offending wheel, it manages both by increasingly binding them together.
I prefer the lsd over traction control because it always does the same thing whereas I find traction control can be unpredictable. On my 4runner its a horrible feature as it castrates any opportunity for fun.
There is so much grip in these cars you'd have to be doing something very hamfisted or silly to really need TC IMO. FWIW I do drive quickly but don't slide it around the street (I leave that for the track). I think tires matter more than TC. I live in YVR like you and have been caught out in the rain (i don't drive in winter or intentionally wet). I've only had two occasions that grip concerned me: 2C in dry at night and flowing water on the I5 with 2/32nds tread on rears. Tires are AD08R and are just fine in wet. Cold temp + dry is the situation that requires active restraint - dry conditions give the illusion of grip but this tire (or most pure summer tires) has vastly lower peak grip in cold temps.
PS I kinda like the tramlining.. reminds me to get it back on the track to truly enjoy it
Don't lift in a turn . Like in the old days. simple.
BAMM! Easy peasy...
Originally Posted by bubba928
Even with street tires be careful when they're cold, especially entering/exiting freeway ramps. Power application should should be conservative.
Agreed. Always need to watch with summer tires and cold weather. Just don't go too "cowboy" on them...
Originally Posted by Martin S.
Some drivers have grown up with Stability Control....and AWD such as the Carrera 4 cars. I have never driven a track car with stability control, nor will I ever. I don't want an electro-mechanical device saving my sorry ***.
I just did 2 days at Buttonwillow with PCA, respectable times, not great but respectable, 2:06.6, looking for 2:02.9999. The fast person in the class, in a 991 Carrera S, or a 991 GT3, believe it was a GT3, turned a 2:03.20. I drove the last session of the day on Sunday...with "my hair on fire" and got several laps in the 2:06 range, the best being a the 2:06.6. My previous best of the weekend was a 2:09...so 3 seconds is significant. Of course I had no electronic traction control, and the car didn't get squirrely until I did. Running track config 1, CW. No "nanny bypass", the complete track.
Just as the OP mentioned, the engine sound between 5,000 and 8.000 RPM is something that non-GT3 owners just can't experience. The brakes, good God.....using steel rotors and Pagid Yellows. And as many of you know, that ABS really works....I'll take that "nanny" feature, just no PASM....and I'll take the Limited Slip too.
In closing, driving Buttonwillow in any configuration is a blast. If you get the opportunity to drive it, don't miss it.
Nice advice. Tku.
Originally Posted by cgfen
Sounds like you (and we) have more "stones" than your friend.
I guess he doesn't do a lot of things that might kill him, like driving a nanny equipped car in traffic.........................
Enjoy the GT3 experiment
I believe that to be true. Enjoying it so far!
Originally Posted by knorrena
The 996 does have a traction control. Its first gen traction control and its called a limited slip differential. Its not very elegant or "smart": if a wheel spins faster than the other it just re-proportions up to 40% of available torque to the non-spinning wheel. Its not smart in that it doesnt manage rpm on the spinning wheel or compare yaw and wheel speed implied direction of travel. Its not elegant in that it does manage the offending wheel, it manages both by increasingly binding them together.
I prefer the lsd over traction control because it always does the same thing whereas I find traction control can be unpredictable. On my 4runner its a horrible feature as it castrates any opportunity for fun.
That's good insight. Tx.
Originally Posted by mistermct
There is so much grip in these cars you'd have to be doing something very hamfisted or silly to really need TC IMO. FWIW I do drive quickly but don't slide it around the street (I leave that for the track). I think tires matter more than TC. I live in YVR like you and have been caught out in the rain (i don't drive in winter or intentionally wet). I've only had two occasions that grip concerned me: 2C in dry at night and flowing water on the I5 with 2/32nds tread on rears. Tires are AD08R and are just fine in wet. Cold temp + dry is the situation that requires active restraint - dry conditions give the illusion of grip but this tire (or most pure summer tires) has vastly lower peak grip in cold temps.
PS I kinda like the tramlining.. reminds me to get it back on the track to truly enjoy it
Very cool and tx. Were you out at Area 27 with the Weissach group day last summer? I remember a spirited drive home in my 981 Cayman with a local black 996 GT3. ?
11-12-2018, 11:22 AM
Fatherly Questions on the "No Traction Control"...
